7
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Good morning. My
3 name is State Senator Dean Skelos, Co-Chair
4 of the Legislative Task Force on Demographic
5 Research and Reapportionment.
6 With me today, Task Force Members, are
7 Co-Chair Senator William Parment; Senator
8 Richard Dollinger; Assemblyman Chris
9 Ortloff; Vincent Bruy, to my left; and Mr.
10 Roman Hedges to my right.
11 I would like to welcome Senator Guy
12 Velella, who is here; Senator Vincent
13 Bidell.
14 And I think I saw Senator Susie
15 Oppenheimer.
16 So, we welcome them. The purpose of
17 this hearing is to obtain input from you,
18 the general public, on how we, as a
19 Legislative Task Force, should be looking at
20 Congressional State Senate and Assembly
21 district lines as, in a sense, a
22 recommendation to the entire State
23 Legislature which will eventually vote on
24 the new plans, and then it will be sent to
.8
1 the Governor for his action.
2 We have to take into account Federal
3 Law, State Law, court decisions, U.S.
4 Constitution, the State Constitution, and
5 your testimony as to how you think the
6 districts should be drawn.
7 I know we all feel very strongly one
8 way or the other about incumbents.
9 If we, to some extent, could keep the
10 testimony more focused on the lines, that
11 would be most beneficial.
12 But, certainly, we would not cut off
13 testimony unless we felt that it was
14 straying a little bit too much.
15 We have many people that are seeking to
16 testify, so we would ask you to keep your
17 testimony to under five minutes.
18 And, certainly, if you would like to
19 submit your testimony, we would be more than
20 happy to make that part of the record.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Let me just say
22 that it is nice to be here in Westchester
23 County.
24 I would just like to acknowledge the
.9
1 presence of Cindy Beal, who is a member of
2 the Assembly.
3 We look forward to your testimony.
4 Thank you.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I am Senator Rick
6 Dollinger. I am from Rochester. It is good
7 to be here in White Plains.
8 Senator Skelos and Assemblyman Parment,
9 throughout the prior hearings that we have
10 had, emphasized to the public that the
11 opportunity for input is not confined just
12 to this hearing.
13 We will accept submissions, written
14 testimony, letters to the commission, the
15 Task Force, during the course of the next
16 several months as we get this process put
17 together.
18 I think it is also important to
19 emphasize, as Senator Skelos did, that what
20 this Task Force does is simply make a
21 recommendation to the New York State
22 Legislature.
23 The final determination of this Task
24 Force will pass through the Legislature, and
.10
1 then there will be a bill that will include
2 the redistricting of both the Senate and
3 Assembly in a single bill and a bill to
4 re-draw our Congressional lines, as well.
5 The only other thing I would emphasize
6 is that, because of nationwide
7 reapportionment, we have the difficult task
8 -- which has been done several times before
9 -- of reapportioning our congressional
10 districts to reduce the number of 31 to 29.
11 And I think it is important to note
12 that we have heard lots of people say, "Do
13 not give away any seats. Do not take away
14 seats."
15 Unfortunately, to some extent,
16 mathematics requires us to have four Federal
17 Congressional seats in this State in the
18 2002 election, and we have no choice but to
19 comply with that mandate.
20 So, as Senator Skelos has said, there
21 are lots of things that constrict the
22 abilities of this Task Force, as well as the
23 Legislature, in producing a final plan.
24 And I think it is our intention to make
.11
1 sure that we comply with all of our legal
2 requirements, as well as listening to the
3 public in an attempt to incorporate their
4 suggestions as well.
5 So, with that, we look forward to
6 today's testimony.
7 Thank you.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Thank you,
9 Chairman Skelos.
10 Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for
11 coming today.
12 I think this is, if not the largest
13 number of people and the number of
14 witnesses, it is certainly among the
15 largest.
16 And we look forward to hearing what you
17 have to say.
18 I would like to point out to all --
19 particularly all those who are going to
20 speak -- picking up on Chairman Skelos'
21 point, that it is about geography and
22 community, not so much as about incumbent
23 office-holders.
24 This is a process that is set forth in
.12
1 the Constitution, in State statutes and in a
2 very substantial body of Federal case law as
3 well.
4 And my point in saying so is to make a
5 very strong urging of everyone here that,
6 while it may appear that the six people on
7 this Task Force have an unlimited set of
8 options before us, the fact is that we do
9 not have unlimited choices.
10 Our choices are rather severely
11 constrained before we even begin to draw a
12 single line.
13 They are constrained by population. The
14 people live where they lived on April 1st,
15 2000; we cannot move them around now.
16 They are constrained by the ethnic
17 identity of neighborhoods and communities
18 and, indirectly then, by the United States
19 Voting Rights Act.
20 There are many, many things that we
21 hear people request of us that people wish
22 to have; things like keeping a certain
23 neighborhood, keeping certain counties
24 together.
.13
1 Some of them can happen. But some of
2 them, frankly, cannot because of those
3 constraints.
4 And we want everybody to understand
5 that because the final product often is not
6 pleasing to everybody.
7 And there are reasons why that cannot
8 happen.
9 We live in the real world, in a world
10 in which the process is defined and in which
11 constraints are defined.
12 We will do our best to take into
13 account your concerns and those heard all
14 around the State.
15 But we are not omnipotent. We are
16 responsible to the Legislature.
17 We recommend to the Legislature; the
18 Senate and the Assembly actually adopt the
19 plans.
20 Our objective is to create districts
21 with all those constraints notwithstanding
22 in which neighborhoods, communities and
23 citizens of this State can elect
24 representatives of their choice that best
.14
1 suit and serve them to the Congress, to the
2 State Assembly and to the State Senate.
3 I want to leave you with this one
4 thought before we begin:
5 Long after all of us and everyone else
6 in office today has passed out of office,
7 the communities we represent will still
8 exist and will still have a need for good
9 representation.
10 To the extent to which they are able by
11 the plan we adopt to do that better, we have
12 succeeded.
13 And with that, I thank you for your
14 attendance and look forward to hearing what
15 you have to say.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: The first witness is
17 Ms. RoseMarie Panio, Vice-Chairwoman of the
18 Westchester County Republican Committee.
19 MS. PANIO: Good morning. My name is
20 RoseMarie Panio.
21 As Vice-Chair of the Westchester County
22 Republican Committee, I want to extend a
23 warm welcome to you, the members of the
24 State Legislative Task Force on Demographic
.15
1 Research and Reapportionment, for traveling
2 to White Plans today to seek public input on
3 the redrawing of legislative district
4 boundaries.
5 The legislative redistricting being
6 considered by the Task Force promises to
7 have a major impact on how local citizens
8 are represented at the State and Federal
9 levels of government in the coming decade.
10 For this reason, I appreciate the
11 opportunity to deliver testimony on this
12 vital issue.
13 And I wish to focus my comments today
14 on redistricting as it applies to the 19th
15 Congressional District represented by
16 Congresswoman Sue Kelly and Senator Rydell
17 (phonetic).
18 As State legislators, students of
19 American politics, you will find that the
20 residents of the 19th Congressional District
21 -- encompassing Putnam County and portions
22 of Dutchess, Orange and Westcheter Counties
23 -- are justifiably proud of the rich,
24 historical nature of our community and the
.16
1 common ties that bind us together.
2 Our ancestors played a leading role in
3 the Nation's founding.
4 And this area was home to a number of
5 dramatic historical events that helped chart
6 the course of our young Constitutional
7 republic.
8 During the Revolutionary War, for
9 example, American forces effectively stopped
10 the powerful British Navy from sailing north
11 by constructing a massive chain across the
12 Hudson River.
13 As Commander of the Continental Army,
14 George Washington fought key battles against
15 the British in the Hudson River Valley in
16 the fight for American independence,
17 including one right here in White Plains:
18 Washington's troops fought courageously
19 to hold on to the strategic post at West
20 Point, and made camp in the nearby towns of
21 Chappaqua and New Windsor.
22 This is the same New Windsor where
23 General Washington created the predecessor
24 of the Purple Heart awarded to soldiers who
.17
1 are wounded in action.
2 We have been the home to Governors,
3 including Thomas Dewey and George Pataki,
4 and hosted future Presidents, including
5 Ulysses Grant and Dwight Eisenhower during
6 their years at West Point.
7 While much has changed since our
8 country was founded, the Lower Hudson Valley
9 remain a unique and homogenous area, a
10 collection of rural and suburban towns and
11 villages far removed from the larger urban
12 centers.
13 I come before you today not in a
14 partisan capacity, but as a local resident,
15 a mother, and a small businesswoman.
16 I have a deep and abiding interest in
17 the future of my community.
18 And I know I speak for many of my
19 neighbors in expressing a strong desire for
20 northern Westcheter County to remain in the
21 19th Congressional District.
22 The towns and villages of the 19th
23 Congressional District have similar
24 demographics and share common interests and
.18
1 common values.
2 While it is true that midtown Manhattan
3 is a mere 22 miles away from northern
4 Westchester County, the reality is that it
5 is a world away.
6 The rural and suburban towns of
7 Bedford, Yorktown and North Salem in
8 northern Westchester have almost nothing in
9 comonwith the residents of New York City.
10 That is not surprising. What you may not
11 know, however, is how little northern
12 Westchester has in common with residents of
13 the southern portion of the county.
14 In recent years, areas in southern
15 Westchester County have acquired many of the
16 same characteristics of New York City, due
17 to urban sprawl.
18 As this sprawl has gained in intensity,
19 increasing population growth has spurred
20 development, turning many formerly suburban
21 neighborhoods in southern Westchester into
22 radically different communities.
23 The city-like atmosphere of these
24 communities is in stark contrast to the
.19
1 rolling hills, farms and suburbs of northern
2 Westchester.
3 There is a clear demarcation line
4 between the two areas that is plainly
5 visible to county residents.
6 As a result, the needs of the residents
7 and local governments in northern
8 Westchester area much more closely aligned
9 with those of our neighbors in Putnam,
10 Dutchess and Orange Counties. To combine
11 the towns of northern Westchester with those
12 of southern Westchester would be a grave
13 disservice to the families who live in these
14 areas. In fact, many families who have moved
15 to northern Westchester from the southern
16 part of the county have done so precisely
17 because they wanted a quieter, more relaxed
18 pace of life.
19 Northern Westchester is far away from
20 thee population density and sprawl so common
21 in the areas bordering New York City.
22 As a result, southern Westchester
23 County has its own unique set of problems
24 that require a different kind of
.20
1 representation from that of the north.
2 With this in mind, it is important that
3 northern Westchester County residents be
4 allowed to remain in a Congressional
5 District that is compatible with the
6 character of the comunity.
7 We achieve this as part of the 19th
8 Congressional District, and strongly opposes
9 any redistricting plan that threatens our
10 removal.
11 If northern Westchester County were to
12 be carved out of the 19th Congressional
13 District an subsumed into greater
14 Westchester County as part of another
15 district, thi would combine widely disparate
16 communities with little in common.
17 Imagine the difficulty a member of
18 Congress would have in representing a
19 district that half resembles the New York
20 City area, with the other half a mix of
21 rural small towns and suburban
22 neighborhoods.
23 We all know the old adage about serving
24 two masters.
.21
1 My family and neighbors in northern
2 Westchester are fortunate to live in a
3 Congressional District that mirrors our own
4 community.
5 We have a very capable representative
6 in Congress, Sue Kelly, who has done an
7 outstanding job of representing our
8 interests in Congress.
9 Her vote totals in northern Westchester
10 are a testament to the satisfaction of local
11 residents and our confidence in her ability
12 to represent us.
13 I would add that Congresswoman Kelly's
14 job, while never easy, is made less
15 complicated by having a District whose
16 individual parts bear a cloes reemblance to
17 one another.
18 This creates a more efficient system
19 for the delivery of Federal resources while
20 avoiding conflicts between dissimilar
21 comunities, particularly when action that
22 benefit one area of the District come at the
23 expense of the other.
24 In closing, I would simply reiterate
.22
1 the strong deire of the residents of
2 northern Westchester to remain a part of the
3 19th Congressional District.
4 Any redistricting plan to the contrary
5 would go againt the will of the people and
6 jeopardize the right of local citizens to
7 fair and effective representation.
8 I would like to acknowledge, as well,
9 the presence of our State Senator Rydell,
10 and say that all of the points in my
11 testimony here today apply to the 17th
12 Senatorial as well.
13 And I assure you that we are equally
14 satisfied with his representation.
15 Thank you very much for the opportunity
16 to come before you today.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Are there any
18 questions?
19 ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: I just have a
20 question about the geography.
21 You mentioned that the residents in
22 northern Westchester differed in interests
23 or needs than in southern Westcheter.
24 Can you give me a boundary using
.23
1 township lines or --
2 MS. PANIO: In my mind, we always
3 call 287 the line, so that is sort of a good
4 way of describing that in terms of character
5 of community differences.
6 I am reminded -- I spent many years
7 growing up in Italy and -- it sounds like I
8 am very old because I grew up in a lot of
9 places; I did get around quite a bit.
10 And it was always very obvious, as I
11 traveled around as a child through one
12 province or another, the differences in the
13 environment and the open space aspect or the
14 lifestyle aspect.
15 I have always considered northern
16 Westchester sort of our province because of
17 its unique character --
18 ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: But the
19 demarcation line would be Interstate 287?
20 MS. PANIO: In many residents' minds,
21 yes.
22 Standing on that roadway, you can
23 notice the demarcation; a more relaxed way
24 of living, as well as a more relaxed way of
.24
1 planning for housing, et cetera.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just a couple of
3 questions.
4 I do not have the numbers in front of
5 me, but there is no question that because
6 the districts are going from 31 to 29, each
7 of the districts is going to have to pick up
8 additional people in areas across the State.
9 In some cases, that will encompass as
10 little as 30- or 40,000; in other cases, as
11 much as 80- or 90,000.
12 If, as you suggest, there is a
13 particular ambiance or community of interest
14 in northern Westchester, where would I go to
15 find that if I were to draw an extra 60- to
16 70,000 people into a Congressional District
17 that incorporated northern Westchester?
18 Where would I go to find that?
19 MS. PANIO: I think that has been
20 happening.
21 We need to preserve northern
22 Westchester.
23 People like myself 31 years ago decided
24 that southern Westchester was not conducive
.25
1 to the northern Westchester County lifestyle
2 anymore.
3 The Town of Yorktown has picked up
4 eight election districts this year.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: My question is,
6 one of the options we have is to go further
7 on the east side of the River or jump over
8 to the west side.
9 You talked about West Point and other
10 points of New York State that are on the
11 west side of the River.
12 To get those 27,000 people and keep
13 that community that you talked about
14 together, would you have us go further north
15 or go west?
16 MS. PANIO: Well, I would have to
17 research that at some point and --
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If you want to
19 get back to us after you do some research,
20 please send a letter to the Task Force and
21 we will incorporate it into the record.
22 MS. PANIO: I would appreciate that.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Are there any other
24 questions?
.26
1 (No response.)
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much.
3 (Applause.)
4 SENATOR SKELOS: The next witness is
5 Dutchess County Legislator David P. Kelly.
6 MR. KELLY: Good morning. My name is
7 David Kelly. I am a county legislator from
8 Dutchess County.
9 I would like to thank you for allowing
10 me to speak today.
11 I have a few remarks on redistricting.
12 Dutchess County is located in the heart
13 of the Hudson Valley at the midway point
14 between New York City and Albany.
15 The character of our county is
16 predominantly suburban and rural with two
17 small cities on the Hudson River.
18 Dutchess is home to several
19 institutions of higher education, including
20 Bard, Vassar, Marist Colleges, Dutchess
21 Community College and the Culinary Institute
22 of America.
23 Working together with elected
24 officials, the communities and businesses,
.27
1 Dutchess has witnessed an impressive
2 economic revival in recent years.
3 Forbes Magazine listed our county as
4 one of the best places to live and work in
5 the United States, and our area has led the
6 State in job growth.
7 We rank in the top 10 nationally when
8 it comes to economic development, and are
9 ranked sixth in the United States for growth
10 in family household income.
11 With the National Census now complete,
12 Dutchess -- like other counties across
13 America -- must consider how redistricting
14 will affect the legislative boundaries that
15 govern who our representatives are.
16 This serious issue has far- reaching
17 consequences for our community.
18 As a country legislator, I want to
19 ensure that our citizens are receiving the
20 best representation possible; their needs
21 and concerns should be the top priority in
22 any discussion of redrawing legislative
23 lines.
24 I believe that each House Congressional
.28
1 District should be composed of as few
2 counties as practicable.
3 Districts that stretch across five or
4 six counties, not uncommon in some areas,
5 should be the exception to the rule, not the
6 norm.
7 Compact districts that match similar
8 communities are the ideal, and this is where
9 you come into play.
10 You are to be commended for seeking the
11 input of local comunities, legislators and
12 citizens, and for making them an integral
13 part of the deliberative process.
14 With respect to Dutchess County, my
15 desire is to see the entire county
16 incorporated into one Congressional
17 District.
18 Many constituents I speak with share my
19 belief that Dutchess County could simplify
20 and enhance its representation in Congress
21 by having one member responsible for our
22 affairs, rather than two.
23 At present, we often find it difficult
24 to bring all the necessary parties together
.29
1 on issues of importance to the community.
2 Having the county broken into two parts
3 when it comes to Congressional
4 representation would only worsen this
5 situation.
6 Depending on your place of residence in
7 Dutchess County, you are represented by
8 either Sue Kelly of the 19th Congressional
9 District or John Sweeney of the 22nd
10 Congressional District.
11 Personally, I have no complaints about
12 the individuals who are representing us.
13 Both members have done a fine job of
14 representing the citizens of Dutchess
15 County.
16 In my view, the people of dutchess
17 would be better served if one member of
18 Congress represents the county in its
19 entirety.
20 The reason is simple: Sue Kelly's
21 portion of the District in Dutchess is much
22 larger, more centrally located in relation
23 to the total area she represents, and more
24 reflective of the neighboring communities.
.30
1 It is unnatural to split a county in
2 two for the purpose of Congressional
3 representation when the towns and villages
4 within are similar to one another.
5 Consolidation of the county into one
6 Congressional district is the logical
7 solution.
8 Having one representative would
9 streamline the process of applying for
10 Federal aid and reduce the confusion of
11 local residents who cannot understand why
12 they hav eone representative while their
13 neighbor down the street has another.
14 Major public policy decisions, as you
15 know, must be discussed thoroughly and
16 wholly understood on multiple levels.
17 Finding solution to our challenges and
18 our common vision would be simpler if we
19 could concentrate our efforts.
20 This would allow local government
21 officials to better coordinate their
22 requests for grants and other assistance,
23 rather than deal with multiple members of
24 Congress.
.31
1 I know I would find this particularly
2 helpful working in the county legislature.
3 Congresswoman Kelly has been an ally
4 and a strong advocate for families in
5 Dutchess County since taking office. Her
6 understanding of local issues is
7 considerable, and we feel fortunate to be
8 able to work with her.
9 Her leadership in Congress and her
10 commitment to helping local government has
11 made her a valuable asset.
12 She sponsored the 1996 Hudson River
13 Habitat Restoration Act, pushed EPA to
14 authorize a Superfund cleanup to reduce PCBs
15 in the Hudson River, and has worked with
16 State and local officials to create jobs and
17 to provide tax relief for our citizens.
18 Her legislative ability is matched by
19 superior constituent service.
20 By incorporating all of Dutchess County
21 into Sue Kelly's Congressional District, you
22 will be acting in the best interests of
23 local residents.
24 In my opinion, this should be the
.32
1 ultimate standard by which redistricting
2 decisions are made.
3 Sue Kelly understands our issues, our
4 needs, and our residents.
5 She deserves the opportunity to
6 represent all the people of Dutchess County.
7 Thank you.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. The next
9 speaker is Lois Zutell, Supervisor of the
10 Town of Southeast.
11 MS. ZUTELL: Good morning. The
12 decisions you make over the course of the
13 next year regarding redistricting will have
14 a very real impact on the quality of life in
15 each and every community in New York State.
16 Putnam is one such community and needs
17 one representative who understands it.
18 We have that now, and we do not want
19 that changed.
20 Congresswoman Sue Kelly has a keen
21 understanding of the issues important to
22 Putnam residents and the future of the
23 county.
24 From Philipstown to Carmel to
.33
1 Southeast, Congresswoman Kelly has been
2 there for the people of Putnam.
3 From grants for economic revitalization
4 in downtown Carmel to preserving the
5 Appalachian Trail in Garrison, as the sole
6 representative of Putnam in Washington, Sue
7 has been a true friend of our county.
8 Putnam has similar needs as southern
9 Dutchess and northern Westchester, and
10 currently has a representative who
11 undertands those needs.
12 Putnam is a close-knit community and
13 represents the heart of the 19th
14 Congressional District.
15 The point I am making is this: Putnam
16 has one strong voice in Congress, and we
17 want to keep it that way.
18 I would like to thank you for giving me
19 the opportunity to speak out on such an
20 important topic as redistricting.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you.
22 Questions?
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: This is a
24 question, I think, that somewhat dovetails
.34
1 the comments by our county legislator from
2 Dutchess.
3 Considering our options, the question
4 of where Putnam County sits in a
5 Congressional District, whether it is -- it
6 is currently with northern Westchester.
7 My question is, if you were looking for
8 a community of interest, would you align it
9 with more of Westchester or would you go
10 further north on the east side of the River,
11 or would you extend it further west across
12 the River?
13 If, as we have heard, northern
14 Westchester, Putnam and Dutchess have some
15 community of interests in them and we need
16 to expand it, where would you suggest we
17 expand it to find that same community of
18 interest?
19 Would you go further north and get more
20 agricultural or go west across the River to
21 a little bit more bedroom- type communities
22 to New York City, as you mentioned?
23 MS. ZUTELL: I think west of Hudson
24 has a different outlook, perpective,
.35
1 lifestyle, community feel.
2 I think east of Hudson is more tied
3 together.
4 And I do feel that north towards
5 Dutchess or further into Dutchess is more
6 applicable to what we would have to say
7 about it.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It is an
9 interesting thing; in this whole hearing
10 process, we ended up in a debate between the
11 east-siders and the west-siders in
12 Manhattan.
13 And now you are telling me that you
14 refer to the Hudson, east side, west side,
15 and you are saying that the Hudson River
16 sort of functions as that boundary --
17 MS. ZUTELL: It is a natural barrier
18 -- or, natural boundary.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So, your
20 suggestion would be, if we wanted to create
21 more of an alignment of community of
22 interest, a very broad term, a very
23 suggestive definition for everybody on this
24 commission, this Task Force and the people
.36
1 we represent -- your suggestion would be to
2 move further north on the east side of the
3 river and stay on the east side?
4 MS. ZUTELL: Yes. And Putnam was
5 part of Dutchess back in its history.
6 So, we have that as an additional tie.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And just a final
8 question.
9 We heard the earlier speaker talk about
10 the division of Westchester County, a much
11 larger county, at 287.
12 Would that be your assessment as well,
13 that that is sort of a dividing line between
14 the portions of north and south Westchester?
15 MS. ZUTELL: I do not feel qualified
16 to do that.
17 I think that will be your job.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Good job, Madam
19 Supervisor.
20 Thank you.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: When we talk about
22 west of the River, obviously, it does not
23 include just Rockland County.
24 It would also include Orange County and
.37
1 parts of Ulster County, as a possibility.
2 I do not believe, knowing a little bit
3 about the Ulster County area, whether
4 Poughkeepsie and Fishkill and Wappingers
5 could be considered bedroom communities of
6 New York City.
7 MS. ZUTELL: Are we speaking west of
8 Hudson or east of Hudson? Are you talking
9 about east, meaning Wappingers?
10 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes -- well, east of
11 the Hudson, that area I do not believe would
12 be considered a bedroom community or
13 communities of New York City?
14 MS. ZUTELL: They are becoming so,
15 yes.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Our next speaker is
17 Charles S. North, President of the
18 Poughkeepsie Area Chamber of Commerce.
19 MR. NORTH: Good morning. Before I
20 refer to my written remarks, I just wanted
21 to say that it is good to be home.
22 I was born and brought up in Port
23 Chester, New York.
24 I have lived in Westchester County for
.38
1 a few years.
2 I worked in Westchester County -- have
3 worked in Westchester County, in Mamaroneck,
4 in towns and villages, in Mamaroneck and
5 White Plains, in Mt. Kisco.
6 So, it is really nice to be home.
7 Good morning. My name is Charles
8 North, better known as Charlie North, and I
9 am the President of the Poughkeepsie Area
10 chamber of Commerce, a regional business
11 organization serving serving business
12 throughout Dutchess County.
13 And I thank all of you for taking the
14 time to be here to listen to the concerns of
15 our community as we head into the
16 redistricting process.
17 During the early to mid-'90s, one of
18 Dutchess County's largest employers, IBM,
19 significantly downsized its workforce.
20 The Dutchess County economy was at an
21 all-time low.
22 The road to recovery, to say the least,
23 was a bit rocky in the beginning.
24 But despite many obstacles, our County
.39
1 of Dutchess has become much stronger.
2 In this case, the old saying that goes,
3 "When one door shuts, the other one opens"
4 was really true.
5 We learned how to recover by working as
6 a team.
7 And one of our key team leaders was our
8 Congresswoman, Sue Kelly.
9 I can say without reservation that
10 today Dutchess County is doing well and is
11 ranked in the top tier of counties
12 nationwide.
13 Our recipe for success started when we
14 intensified our efforts towards the
15 activities of business retention, business
16 expansion and the attraction of new and
17 additional businesses to Dutchess.
18 We added to and continue to promote our
19 already successful arts and tourism
20 programs.
21 This team effort was very successful,
22 and the results have led to continued job
23 growth, increased retail sales,
24 record-breaking real estate market and a
.40
1 robust economy, just to name a few
2 successes.
3 This welcomed growth has presented new
4 needs and requires every level of government
5 -- Local, State and Federal -- to work
6 together -- that same team I had mentioned
7 before -- to work effectively to meet the
8 needs of our Dutchess County communities and
9 residents.
10 In the past and currently, I am
11 represented by Congresswoman Sue Kelly.
12 She represents the southern portion of
13 Dutchess County where I live, as well as its
14 largest city, the County Seat of Dutchess,
15 Poughkeepsie, where I work.
16 Sue Kelly and Dutchess County are a
17 good fit.
18 Her outstanding representation of
19 Dutchess in Congress has served our County
20 residents well.
21 She was worked to bring millions of
22 dollars in Federal Aid back to Dutchess
23 County, and her efforts have made a
24 significant difference in the lives of our
.41
1 residents in Dutchess County.
2 Her efforts have paid off when it comes
3 to securing funds for transportation and
4 infrastructure needs.
5 She went forward to secure commitments
6 from the Feeral Government to clean up
7 contaminated groundwater.
8 And her understanding and compassion
9 for our aging veteran population who live in
10 the local veterans' hospitals in Dutchess
11 County has certainly made a positive
12 difference in their lives.
13 Currently, the 19th Congressional
14 District encompasses 11 towns and cities in
15 eastern and southern Dutchess.
16 Because of our continued success,
17 Dutchess continues to grow.
18 Because of our quality of life, like a
19 magnet, we attract folks from Westchester
20 and Putnam Counties.
21 And to maintain continuity, it is my
22 firm belief that Dutchess County should
23 continue to be linked to the Lower Hudson
24 Valley communities.
.42
1 The needs and population of Dutchess
2 County are increasingly similar to those of
3 the counties south of us, such as
4 Westchester and Putnam.
5 Because of this continued growth,
6 Dutchess has become more suburban and shares
7 commonality with Westchester and Putnam.
8 Dutchess has grown and is still growing
9 at a very, very fast pace, just as our
10 counterparts are, Westchester and Putnam.
11 Our needs for better roads, our updated
12 infrastructure, are paramount in order to
13 keep up.
14 Our Congresswoman, Sue Kelly, is in
15 touch with our county, our residents and is
16 most familiar with our needs.
17 I wish to thank you for giving me the
18 opportunity to speak with you this morning.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you.
20 Questions?
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one
22 question, Mr. North.
23 You talked about the accelerated pace
24 of growth in Dutchess County, which
.43
1 obviously transforms the county's character.
2 More jobs come in. There is more
3 development. There are more office
4 buildings, more commercial space, that tends
5 to impact the nature of the community.
6 And my question is twofold: One, do
7 you expect that growth to continue in the
8 sense of becoming more like Westchester,
9 which is what I think I heard you say?
10 Two, given those changes, does that
11 mean that we have to stop at Dutchess County
12 and combine it to the south and north, go
13 further north?
14 MR. NORTH: The answer to your first
15 question is that I firmly believe that
16 Dutchess will continue to grow at a very
17 fast pace.
18 Number two, as far as the redistricting
19 goes, I would believe that Dutchess County
20 should be included with all the southern
21 counties, the total county.
22 SENATOR SKELOS: I am just going to
23 ask you the other question.
24 We talked a couple of minutes ago about
.44
1 the fact that Congresswoman Kelly's District
2 does go across the river.
3 My question is, if we were going to
4 combine that community, would we go further
5 across the River or would you suggest we go
6 further north or further south if, as you
7 say, Dutchess is beginning to look a little
8 bit more like southern Westchester.
9 MR. NORTH: My opinion would be to go
10 further north and stay on the eastern
11 portion of the Hudson.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Mr. Jack
13 O'Toole?
14 MR. O'TOOLE: Ladies and gentlemen of
15 the committee, I would like to thank you for
16 coming to Westchester and for hearing my
17 comments.
18 I come with a multiple purpose today.
19 I would like to talk to you about a
20 current State Senator, and then to ask you
21 to do us a favor.
22 I want to describe today one
23 hard-working guy, it's Guy Velella.
24 Guy Velella has been responsive,
.45
1 helpful and supportive to his constituents
2 since I have known him, for about 10 years.
3 The needs of the north Bronx and south
4 Westchester, there is a commonality between
5 those needs.
6 The Senator has been able to bridge the
7 two counties and work well with civic
8 leaders in each of thoes counties.
9 Tenants are supportive of Guy Velella
10 because he has been supportive of tenants.
11 Yonkers, southeast Yonkers has a mobile
12 library going around southeast Yonkers now
13 because of Guy Velella.
14 Graffiti has been removed and is
15 totally non-existent in southeast Yonkers
16 because of Guy Velella.
17 There was a task force. We notified
18 the Senator's office, and it was cleaned up.
19 The second precinct in Yonkers -- and
20 this is very parochial, but -- has more
21 equipment, has lightweight fights for police
22 officers, lighweight vests for police
23 officers because of Guy Velella.
24 I mentioned the shared concerns of the
.46
1 north Bronx and south Westchester.
2 We share parks, and we share the
3 developing need for new park, land for parks
4 to be dedicated.
5 Guy Velella is supportive of this.
6 We share sports teams. There is a
7 Yonkers and Bronx boys and girls club which
8 has sports teams which are supported by Guy
9 Velella.
10 The Greenway, Hudson River, and the
11 cleaning of Long Island Sound is supported
12 by Guy Velella.
13 Our schools, parochial and seniors --
14 most of the students are either -- it is a
15 bi-county situation.
16 There is a school that is right on the
17 line between Westchester and Yonkers, St.
18 Barnabas.
19 Guy is supportive of those schools and
20 of those students.
21 Guy has been bipartisan, and I know
22 that as a civic leader.
23 So, I ask you to keep Guy Velella as
24 the State Senator for south Westchester,
.47
1 where I live.
2 I grew up in the Bronx, and I know what
3 the Bronx needs -- or, did need and what
4 Westchester needs now.
5 I am living in Westchester now and I am
6 bringing up my family.
7 South Westchester needs Guy Velella.
8 He is a hard-working guy, and he does
9 what his constituents needs, and we just
10 need him.
11 Thank you very much.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you for
13 coming.
14 Any questions?
15 (No response.)
16 SENATOR SKELOS: The Honorable Joe
17 Solomine, Supervisor, Pelham Town.
18 MR. SOLOMINE: Good morning. My name
19 is Joseph Solomine, and I have asked Mayor
20 Davis of Mount Vernon to join me.
21 I have about a one-minute statement
22 and, if you wish to ask us some questions,
23 maybe that will help.
24 I just was wondering, how do I look? I
.48
1 got all dressed up today. I'm okay? Not
2 bad, huh?
3 A couple of statistical facts: I was
4 born and raised in the Bronx, Pelham Bay,
5 which is always part of the 34th Senatorial
6 Ditrict.
7 And I moved to Pelham in 1972 and have
8 been there for 30 years, and became the Town
9 Supervisor and have been for six years.
10 The 34th Senatorial District has had a
11 relationship with Pelham for about 30 years
12 through six supervisors, two of which have
13 been Democrats.
14 That was a big mistake, but four of
15 which have been Republicans. Sometimes that
16 is funny.
17 We have approximately 7,000 registered
18 voters with about a 50-50 split.
19 In the last election, Senator Velella
20 got about 4,000 votes.
21 And I think the reason for that
22 bipartisan support is because of the way he
23 has reached out to the community.
24 Some of the things that he does --
.49
1 well, my position is a part-time position;
2 not by hours, but by virtue of a statement
3 that says I am a part-time supervisor.
4 I will many times ask him to play
5 traffic cop. For example, he has secured
6 for me a grant for a senior citizens' van.
7 He has secured for me a grant to build
8 a senior citizens/teen center, almost
9 $300,000.
10 We continually try to search out
11 granting and public facilities for parks and
12 recreation because the north Bronx and
13 Pelham and Mount Vernon are strapped for
14 recreational space and open spaces.
15 And we work very closely in these
16 areas.
17 I almost get the impression sometimes
18 -- and I mean thi with all due repect --
19 that sometimes we have to tinker with
20 something just for the sake of tinkering
21 with it.
22 And I almost feel like, you know,
23 folks, if it is not broken, let's not try to
24 fix this thing because it just does not
.50
1 work.
2 Now, the reason why I asked Ernie to
3 come up with me is because I also am
4 involved deeply in the Mount Vernon
5 community because I am involved in the Boys
6 and Girls Club in Mount Vernon.
7 Ernie and I have worked very closely
8 together.
9 When he was first elected, he put me on
10 as part of his transition team.
11 Senator Velella also represents parts
12 of Mount Vernon also, so they are kind of
13 interchangeable, which is why I asked Ernie
14 to join us.
15 If you have questions of either of us,
16 we would be happy to try and answer them.
17 MAYOR DAVIS: I am Ernie Davis, Mayor
18 of Mount Vernon, and we come together on
19 this occasion for a common purpose.
20 We know that leadership is extremely
21 important.
22 We know who represents you, that they
23 develop a sensitivity for the people and the
24 place they represent is critical especially
.51
1 in my city.
2 Guy Velella is a registered Republican.
3 I am a Democrat.
4 We have sent Senator Thompson as a
5 Democrat to represent us.
6 And they work well together, and we
7 would hate to see that team split up for any
8 light reason.
9 We would like to keep the
10 representation that we have.
11 And I could go on and on. But the
12 bottom line is that we are happy with what
13 we got.
14 So, we would beseech your understanding
15 in this matter and act accordingly.
16 If there are any questions, perhaps --
17 I do not think there will be, but just in
18 case.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Dollinger
20 has a question.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: In the
22 reapportionment of the 34th Senate District
23 last time -- and that District was the
24 subject of extensive litigation involving
.52
1 the final plan -- the City of Mount Vernon
2 was divided according to --
3 MR. SOLOMINE: I would just like to
4 point out, if I could, that there was
5 litigation in the State Courts about certain
6 items that the Court of Appeals affirmed,
7 the drawing of the 34th and the entire
8 Senate plan by a vote of six-to-one.
9 So, I would just like to put that on
10 the record.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No question about
12 that --
13 MR. SOLOMINE: And the Justice
14 Department approved the drawing of both of
15 these Congressional lines, taking into
16 account the Voting Rights Act.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Right. That is
18 the issue that I wanted to ask.
19 As you know, it is a fact that the City
20 of Mount Vernon was divided largely along
21 racial lines under the 1990 Census to
22 accommodate at that time the legal
23 requirements of the Voting Rights Act.
24 Senator Skelos is correct; that was
.53
1 cleared by the Justice Department as a
2 voting rights district.
3 Nonetheless, the City of Mount Vernon
4 was split along racial lines.
5 And I would just ask the Mayor -- I
6 mean, the law has changed, and there have
7 been a lot of changes, all of which we are
8 going to have to comply with.
9 And my question is, that division of
10 the City of Mount Vernon, if you had your
11 druthers, would you put it all back together
12 as a single unit?
13 Generally, we have the discretion to
14 split cities because of the requirement of
15 our State Constitution and elsewhere.
16 But my question is, would you put the
17 City back together in a single district?
18 MAYOR DAVIS: Well, if we did not
19 have the representation, maybe that would be
20 a question that I would entertain.
21 But since the team that we have has
22 shown that they can deliver the service --
23 it is the presumption in the United States
24 that race is extremely important and that,
.54
1 if one race is in, it punishes the other.
2 However, the exception has been -- if
3 you follow that premise -- that Guy Velella
4 and Ruth Thompson, who is African -- and Guy
5 Velella, who is sort of White --
6 (Laughter.)
7 MAYOR DAVIS: -- has done a great
8 job.
9 So, they have overcome, and they are
10 exemplary examples of what America should be
11 about.
12 So, I do not expect there will be
13 problems with the line-up that we have.
14 MR. SOLOMINE: You folks are all in
15 the political arena, and you know that this
16 is all about relationships and the
17 relationships you develop over the years.
18 And to imply that a White Senator would
19 not service a Black community or vice versa
20 just does not make any sense whatsoever.
21 I mean, when we wanted to open up the
22 North Side Boys and Girls Club, he went to
23 his Community Block Grant and gave us $5,000
24 to open that up.
.55
1 And that was all minority. I mean, it
2 just not wash especially in down- county
3 where we have this mix.
4 And I appreciate your concerns, but, in
5 this particular situation --
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The only reason
7 why I raise that issue is because we have
8 heard and we continue to hear lots of
9 discussion about the merits of a particular
10 representative.
11 And we have heard that in New York
12 City.
13 We have heard it on Long Island. We
14 have heard it upstate.
15 And we have certainly heard about
16 Senator Velella before in the Bronx.
17 But the issue that we face, although we
18 can take incumbency into account in the
19 reapportionment process -- what we are
20 really here to do is to focus on
21 relationships between communities --
22 geography on the ground, people on the
23 ground, communities on the ground -- and not
24 necessarily look at the skills of any
.56
1 particular representative.
2 We understand -- certainly the four of
3 us who are elected officials, and I think
4 both of the other gentlemen on this Task
5 Force, understand that the quality of the
6 representative is what gives people a sense
7 of satisfaction.
8 I mean, Senator Velella won re-
9 election last year in what I think we could
10 describe as a hotly contested race.
11 And he clearly deserves the support of
12 his voters.
13 He proved himself to them again. But
14 in our process, what we are looking for are
15 facts on the ground, the demography, the
16 communities that exist on the ground that
17 are really a different factor other than the
18 skills of the particular elected officials
19 who represent them.
20 And our goal is to try to bring those
21 communities together when they have common
22 interests and common identification so that
23 they will have an opportunity to elect
24 someone who shares those interests for a
.57
1 public office.
2 In Senator Velella's case, given the
3 unusual configuration of that district
4 which, as Senator Skelos points out, was
5 fully litigated in the '90s and resolved so
6 that that District was preserved for all
7 kinds of reasons, the notion was -- the
8 courts had said that is okay, to fashion a
9 district like that, because of the
10 compulsion of the Voting Rights Act,
11 foremost.
12 In looking at that a decade later, the
13 question is whether that community of
14 interest, those people on the ground, still
15 share that community.
16 That is what we are here to find out.
17 And in that respect, your comments
18 about Senator Velella and the nature of the
19 community are clearly pertinent.
20 I just want to emphasize that the
21 questions of the changing demography --
22 certainly in the Bronx, with new Hispanic
23 populations and other trends -- put us in a
24 different position than we were a decade
.58
1 ago.
2 And, frankly, the changes in the Voting
3 Rights Act put us in a somewhat different
4 legal posture, as well.
5 That is the only point I wanted to
6 make.
7 MR. SOLOMINE: But, certainly,
8 Senator Richard, you have the two top-
9 elected officials in adjacent communities
10 telling you 10 years later that this
11 particular Senator is doing the job and
12 reaching the community effectively.
13 You cannot discount that.
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I agree with you,
15 Mr. Supervisor, except that our goal is not
16 necessarily to preserve any incumbent as the
17 primary concern.
18 Instead, that is one of the factors,
19 and we have to look at a broader mix.
20 That is why I asked you the questions
21 about the community of interest which is --
22 MR. SOLOMINE: But, of course, that
23 also plays down to the constituency also.
24 In other words, we are really not
.59
1 concerned with the elected official as much
2 as we are the constituency that that elected
3 official serves.
4 That is most important, the key issue.
5 MAYOR DAVIS: I think the question
6 is, does Mount Vernon have more in common
7 with the Bronx than it has in the
8 configuration that we have that is not in
9 the Bronx.
10 I would say there is a Westchester
11 mentality, if you will, and there is a Bronx
12 mentality.
13 They do not necessarily mix. Even
14 though the complexion might be closer in
15 hue, the interests might not.
16 So, I think that you are talking about
17 a big city as opposed to a Westchester city.
18 And we obviously have different needs
19 at different times.
20 So, what we are saying is that the
21 experiment has worked.
22 And if you see fit, we would appreciate
23 if you did not tinker with something that
24 has shown that it works.
.60
1 In fact, it can be an example. There
2 is a preconceived notion that people who are
3 not of the same -- did not come from the
4 same origin cannot work together.
5 And I think that this has proven that
6 they can.
7 Ultimately, I hope that we will have
8 really colorblind but common interests;
9 color is just one thing.
10 I do not agree with everybody that is
11 my color. I do not agree with everybody
12 that is your color.
13 But the philosophy that governs that is
14 the thing that counts.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I just wanted to
16 make clear that I do not discount your
17 observations as to people on the ground of
18 the effectiveness of a Senator or an elected
19 official working together as part of a team
20 and providing for a community.
21 That is clearly -- I mean, although we
22 deal with concepts, the bottom line is that
23 that is what people are looking for from
24 their government.
.61
1 And we ought to be in a position
2 whether on this Task Force or elsewhere
3 encouraging everybody in this State to
4 provide for their communities the way the
5 representative you have talked about does.
6 So, I just --
7 MAYOR DAVIS: Well, we feel that the
8 -- let me leave you with a parting shot.
9 When I was -- I used to be a county
10 legislator sitting right over there
11 (indicating), and I use the word that we are
12 inextricably intertwined.
13 And that is more true than I ever
14 thought, regardless of who you think you
15 are.
16 There are common interests that anybody
17 in an organized society will share.
18 The Bronx needs to be whole. Mount
19 Vernon needs to be whole. Westchester needs
20 to be whole.
21 And when these communities are working
22 at maximum efficiency, when people have jobs
23 and when they have opportunity, you
24 automatically -- the byproduct of that is a
.62
1 strong state.
2 And this is what we believe. Thank you
3 so very much.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. The next
5 speaker is Brentley Frye.
6 MR. FRYE: Good morning. I am
7 Brentley Frye of Mount Vernon, here to speak
8 on behalf of Senator Guy Velella and the
9 need to maintain the Senate District as it
10 currently stands.
11 It has been a privilege to know the
12 Senator from my perspective in the role of
13 community advocate working with the
14 Fleetwood Neighborhood Association.
15 Consistently, Senator Velella has been
16 responsive to both the needs and the request
17 of the community.
18 And I say the word "needs" to
19 underscore the fact that he has been pro-
20 active in identifying areas for improvement
21 in the portion of Mount Vernon that falls
22 within his District; namely, Fleetwood.
23 I say "request" to emphasize that the
24 Senator has been extraordinary in
.63
1 translating our input into actionable
2 deliverables whether they be in the form of
3 train station improvements or general safety
4 from the mobile police station.
5 The type of successful track record the
6 Senator has established over his many years
7 of service comes from two primary
8 fundamentals.
9 First: His thorough knowledge,
10 awareness and integration within the
11 District that he serves.
12 While the District bridges both the
13 Bronx and southern Westchester, an
14 examination of the characteristics of those
15 two communities indicates significant common
16 threads such as population density,
17 socioeconomic conditions, diversity and
18 housing prices.
19 Second: The Senator focuses on what is
20 important to his constituents enables a
21 consistency of execution, as he is
22 responsive to our needs and our requests.
23 All too often we see resources thrown at the
24 symptom of a problem rather than addressing
.64
1 the harder underlying problem.
2 In this particular area, the Senator's
3 connections with his district has proven to
4 be a tremendous benefit to all of his
5 constituents.
6 I would like to spend a moment
7 addressing the notion of any changes to the
8 district scheme, which would be a major
9 disadvantage to both the constituents and
10 the State's charter of service.
11 The basic premise of redistricting, on
12 the surface, appears to be not a bad thing.
13 Yet, if you strip away the veneer of
14 this basic reason, one quickly gets to the
15 issue itself.
16 That is that there simply is no
17 compelling reason to change the current
18 district reapportionment.
19 I suppose the notion is best captured
20 by the saying, "If it isn't broken, don't
21 fix it."
22 The current move to adjust the district
23 boundaries, while perhaps very well
24 intentioned, simply is not the right thing
.65
1 to do.
2 If we move forward, it is easy to see
3 that the momentum, the connection with the
4 community and the overall improvement in the
5 district will be disruptive perhaps in a
6 very damaging way.
7 Now, I ask, why would we want to
8 self-inflict this wound?
9 The bottom line is that there is no
10 basic good reason that I can see.
11 I urge the members of this board to
12 carefully consider the massive disruption
13 that would be a given outcome of any change
14 in the current district boundaries.
15 Further, I would ask, with respect,
16 that the results of consistently delivered
17 customer satisfaction in the Senator's
18 District be given a much greater weight than
19 any benefit that might come out of any
20 proposed changes.
21 If you have any questions, I would be
22 happy to address them if I can.
23 Thank you.
24 SENATOR SKELOS: Questions?
.66
1 (No response.)
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much.
3 Mr. Frank Morganthaler?
4 MR. MORGANTHALER: Good morning,
5 ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for
6 giving me the opportunity to speak today.
7 My name is Frank Morganthaler, and I
8 live at 14 Boone Street in Yonkers, New
9 York.
10 I am a constituent of the 87th Assembly
11 District and the 35th Senate District.
12 We all came here today to discuss
13 legislative redistricting.
14 I think that we all would agree that
15 any future redistricting should be done
16 fairly and equitably so that no individual
17 politician gain any unfair advantage as a
18 result.
19 Well, unfortunately, it would seem that
20 some politicians may have been a plan in
21 place that would assure them of a favorable
22 outcome when district lines are redrawn.
23 I do not believe that this body is
24 aware of the details of that plan.
.67
1 It would be unfortunate if this Task
2 Force made any decision on redistricting
3 before it was made aware of the serious
4 nature of this information.
5 Legislative hearings conducted two
6 discuss local redistricting in Westchester
7 County produced a number of speakers who
8 adamantly disagreed with the validity and
9 accuracy of the 2000 Census results.
10 I also question the legitimacy of the
11 results.
12 I feel that there is a possibility that
13 the results could hav been collected in a
14 way that would favor certain politicians.
15 Accordingly, since I am very familiar
16 with the related facts, I felt that it was
17 my duty to present the information at this
18 hearing, and I will do so now.
19 The statistics compiled by the 2000
20 Census will be used to determine how New
21 York State election district bondaries will
22 be redrawn.
23 Census figures for Westchester County
24 were collected and tabulated by the White
.68
1 Plainss local Census Office, better known as
2 "LCL 2248".
3 This local office was also responsible
4 for collecting all the data relating to the
5 35th Senate District and the 87th Assembly
6 District, and that is where the problem
7 lies.
8 Senator Nicholas Spano is the elected
9 representative in the 35th enate District,
10 and his brother, Michael Spano, is the
11 elected representative in the 87th Assembly
12 District.
13 They have a sister, whose name is
14 Eleanore Lennon.
15 Ms. Lennon was employed in the White
16 Plain local Census Office.
17 Her job title was Assistant Manager for
18 Field Operations.
19 The Assistant Manager for Field
20 Operations had the responsibility of
21 determining which areas would be counted,
22 how often they would be counted and who
23 would do the counted.
24 AMFO, as the position is known, also
.69
1 had the charge of assigning crew leaders and
2 enumerators who went out and collected the
3 raw data.
4 All the data from the field was then
5 returned to the Assistant Manager for Field
6 Operations, Ms. Lennon.
7 She had total control over the process
8 of collecting the Census figures for
9 Westchester County.
10 Those same results would be used in
11 determining the reconfiguration of all of
12 Westchester County Election District
13 boundaries, even those of her two brothers.
14 Could this be a conflict of interest?
15 Could these two elected officials be gaining
16 an unfair advantage as a result of a
17 possibly tainted Census count? Ms. Lennon
18 was in a position where she could have
19 influenced the outcome of the Census count,
20 benefitting both of her brothers, if she
21 decided to do so.
22 Let me state that no one is making any
23 accusatory statements here. However, it
24 does beg the question: Why was the sister
.70
1 of a State Senator and a State Asemblyman
2 working in such a highly sensitive Census
3 position?
4 The problem runs much deeper. There
5 are certain guidelines that every individual
6 who applies must meet in order to qualify
7 for employment with the Census Bureau.
8 One particular section of Census
9 Publication D-270 states that "...employees
10 of the Census must not engage in partisan
11 political activity during the entire 24
12 hours of any day you work for the Census
13 Bureau."
14 In that regard, Ms. Lennon should never
15 have been employed in any position by the
16 Census, much less the position of Assistant
17 Manager for Field Operations.
18 You see, for the entire term of her
19 employment with the Census, Ms. Lennon was
20 listed as the Treasurer of her brother
21 Nick's campaign committee, ID Number A03840.
22 Serving in that capacity would legally
23 preclude her from working for the Census
24 Bureau.
.71
1 Apparently, Ms. Lennon did not divulge
2 this information to the Census Bureau on her
3 employment application, as is required, and
4 accepted a position in the White Plains
5 local census office.
6 The question must be asked as to why
7 the sister of two elected officials would
8 put herself in a position like this, and why
9 would her brothers not address possible
10 conflict of interest problems with her
11 before she accepted the position?
12 Or, was this all part of an elaborate
13 plan to seek an advantage in the
14 redistricting process?
15 On April 5th, 2001, The Westchester
16 County Weekly printed an article in relation
17 to this issue.
18 Shortly thereafter, Ms. Lennon's name
19 was removed as Treasurer from the Senator
20 Nick Spano Campaign Committee.
21 It appears the story got a reaction.
22 Why? Had the Spanos gotten caught? Were
23 they trying to cover up?
24 It was a little too late. Ms. Lennon
.72
1 no longer works for the Census. The damage
2 already had been done.
3 It would appear that the publicity in
4 regard to this issue struck a nerve and
5 forced the individuals involved to take
6 action to try and cover up an obvious
7 problem.
8 In that regard, in late March, I
9 contacted the Inspector General of the
10 Department of Commerce in Washington, D. C.
11 I asked them to open an investigation
12 into this matter since Ms. lenno had
13 obviously been less than truthful in
14 withholding the information regarding her
15 political activity on her employment
16 application.
17 I also asked the Inspector General to
18 look into the possibility of impropriety in
19 this matter.
20 It would seem that Ms. Lennon was in a
21 position to influence the outcome of the
22 Census figures, especially those affecting
23 her brothers' election districts.
24 I feel that this conduct is at least a
.73
1 conflict of interest.
2 It would also appear to be a violation
3 of commonly accepted ethics laws.
4 I believe that the State Ethics
5 Commision should look into this matter.
6 Additionally, I am calling on the New
7 York State Attorney General's Office and the
8 Westchester County District Attorney's
9 Office to fully investigate this matter.
10 I happen to believe that what was done
11 here is criminal.
12 Was this a carefully calculated plan
13 involving two elected State officials and
14 their sister, or was it just a coincidence?
15 That question is for your Task Force to
16 decide.
17 Did these elected officials attempt to
18 gain a decided edge and favorable redrawing
19 of their district lines?
20 Remember, changes made now will last
21 for 10 years.
22 Favorable changes could keep a greedy
23 politician in office for that entire period.
24 Would the promise of political
.74
1 superiority in their district be worth
2 taking a chance to influence the Census
3 numbers?
4 Again, that is up to your Task Force to
5 decide.
6 The redistricting, when completed, will
7 have a serious effect on State and Federal
8 aid allotted to municipalities.
9 That aid should not be compromised, and
10 communities should not lose benefits because
11 of the possible corrupt activities of one
12 family.
13 This is a very, very serious matter.
14 I ask that your Task Force take the
15 information that I have presented today into
16 consideration when planning new district
17 lines.
18 I would further ask that the
19 Legislature take no action on redistricting
20 until the State Attorney General and the
21 Westchester County District Attorney have
22 completed their investigations into this
23 matter.
24 I have submitted related documentation
.75
1 in the information packets that I left with
2 the Clerk for your review.
3 I hope you will look at those and
4 seriously review them.
5 Again, I thank you for your time in
6 allowing me to speak this morning.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Questions?
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
9 Morganthaler, do you have any evidence that
10 the numbers enumerated by the Census Bureau
11 in Westchester County are either higher or
12 lower through the conduct of anyone during
13 the Census enumeration process?
14 Do you have any evidence of that?
15 MR. MORGANTHALER: Well, as I said, I
16 had attended a number of county hearings,
17 county legislative hearings in this regard
18 for redistricting.
19 And at those meetings, a number of
20 municipalities came forward and strongly
21 diagreed with the numbers that the Census
22 enumerated in this count.
23 They felt they were undercounted. They
24 felt they would lose aid as a result.
.76
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I just want to go
2 back to my question.
3 Do you have any evidence that the
4 conduct of anyone influenced the collection
5 of those numbers during the enumeration
6 process?
7 You have made some very serious
8 allegations --
9 MR. MORGANTHALER: I realize that.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Do you have
11 redress for those allegations in other forms
12 other than this?
13 It sounds as though you have pursued
14 this, but I just want to be clear that our
15 goal is to deal with numbers and to deal
16 with communities.
17 And I just am alway troubled by the
18 fact that someone comes up and says there
19 has been damage done, there have been things
20 done, without proof that there has been any
21 alteration of the numbers that we have to
22 work with.
23 And I would just suggest to you that
24 these are very serious allegations to make
.77
1 in a public forum.
2 I am not here to defend anyone. I am
3 on the other side of the aisle.
4 But I just would suggest that you made
5 some serious allegations. I would suggest
6 you take those allegations to where someone
7 can help you do it, unless you can tell us
8 that you have direct evidence that somebody
9 tinkered with those numbers one way or the
10 other.
11 If not, I am not sure it is appropriate
12 for you to make that comment here.
13 MR. MORGANTHALER: Well, one number I
14 can address is the fact that Mr. Spano,
15 Senator Nicholas Spano -- his district
16 picked up 8,004 additional voters in a
17 heavily Republican area.
18 Can I prove that that was done on
19 purpose? No.
20 But it does, again, beg a question:
21 How come?
22 If Mr. Spano, hypothetically now, was
23 able to use those 8,004 votes --
24 predominantly in Yonkers, where he is very
.78
1 strong -- that probably would --
2 SENATOR SKELOS: I think what Senator
3 Dollinger is trying to say is do you have
4 any evidence?
5 There have been losses of population
6 upstate in Democrat areas and Republican
7 areas.
8 There has been loss of population in
9 the Republican areas on Long Island, where I
10 come from.
11 They have been getting new Republican
12 areas; they have lost some Democrat areas.
13 It is just the nature of what the
14 Census Bureau is, and the Census was
15 conducted under the Clinton Administration.
16 So, my question is very simple -- and I
17 agree with Senator Dollinger -- do you have
18 any direct evidence that this occurred?
19 And if you do not, then I think it
20 would be inappropriate at this forum for you
21 to continue.
22 MR. MORGANTHALER: Well, I think --
23 and I will disagree as to it being
24 inappropriate because I think the fact that
.79
1 a possible conflict of interest exists --
2 SENATOR SKELOS: The Task Force has
3 been given the numbers by the Census Bureau.
4 Those are the numbers that we are dealing
5 with and will be dealing with.
6 MR. MORGANTHALER: Many
7 municipalities, when the numbers were
8 brought forward by the Census, disagreed
9 strongly with those --
10 SENATOR SKELOS: We have had,
11 throughout the State, people who have
12 indicated they may be undercounted,
13 overcounted, whatever. That is another
14 issue.
15 But the Census Bureau has given us
16 their numbers that we are going to deal
17 with.
18 And I guess, again, you know, show me
19 the beef. If you don't have the beef, then
20 --
21 MR. MORGANTHALER: I do believe that
22 there is some beef, if you will, in the fact
23 that this young lady had that position.
24 SENATOR SKELOS: Did you run for
.80
1 office?
2 MR. MORGANTHALER: Did I? Once. Not
3 successfully, unfortunately.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Excuse me. I
5 just want to make sure I make this point
6 very explicitly.
7 Senator Skelos is correct. We were
8 given numbers. There is no question that we
9 have heard complaints about undercounts and
10 overcounts and mistakes.
11 And, in fact, we know that there have
12 been mistakes because we know that in one of
13 the -- they misdrew where the Ossining
14 Prison was and put it in the wrong district.
15 So, we have dealt with mistakes, and we
16 have dealt with allegations of undercount
17 and overcount.
18 But I would just suggest -- and I go
19 back to this question: Do you have any
20 evidence that anyone intentionally altered
21 any numbers or engaged in any conduct which
22 intentionally altered the numbers that we
23 are dealing with?
24 MR. MORGANTHALER: I would not say
.81
1 "altered numbers".
2 But I do believe more Census
3 enumerators were sent into specific areas
4 where the Senator -- which was the Senator's
5 District.
6 And that could be checked through
7 Census records.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
9 Morganthaler, I would suggest that you have
10 ways to seek redress if there was a wrong
11 committed.
12 And I am going to tell you -- you can
13 do what you wish but, as I hear you tell me,
14 you do not have any direct evidence that
15 anyone changed the numbers, tinkered with
16 the numbers, altered the numbers that we
17 have to deal with.
18 Is that correct?
19 MR. MORGANTHALER: I guess you could
20 say that, yes.
21 Okay. Well, I just thought it was
22 important enough to bring to the attention
23 of the Task Force.
24 And, again, I thank you for your time.
.82
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Louise Muller,
2 please?
3 MS. MULLER: Good morning, Gentlemen.
4 I am Louise Muller. I am a resident of
5 Pelham and a constituent of Congresswoman
6 Nita Lowey's.
7 I am a long-term school board member,
8 formerly of the Pelham Public Schools and
9 currently I am President of the Southern
10 Westchester BOCES Board of Education.
11 I am also immediate past Chairman and
12 former Presient of the Westchester
13 Children's Association, which is
14 Westchester's longtime independent child
15 advocacy organization.
16 As an advocate for children and an
17 elected policy-maker in public education, I
18 appreciate the opportunity to testify before
19 you on the critical importance of Nita
20 Lowey's service as a United States
21 Representative in the 18th Congressional
22 District.
23 She has been a tireless worker for
24 legislation which will benefit the healthy
.83
1 growth and education of all children,
2 regardless of their social, economic and
3 ethnic background.
4 Representing a diverse population in
5 Westchester, the Bronx and Queens,
6 Congresswoman Lowey has a deep understanding
7 of the needs of families living in poverty,
8 families without health insurance, recent
9 arrivals who do not speak English, as well
10 as middle income and affluent families.
11 And her legislative positions reflect
12 that understanding.
13 I value diversity in our community, and
14 Nita Lowey values and reflects an
15 understanding of diversity in our
16 Congressional District.
17 America is a diverse place, and it is
18 important that our Members of Congress
19 understand that diversity.
20 For many years, Nita Lowey had
21 advocated for modernization and rebuilding
22 of our crumbling school buildings,
23 particularly in our poorer communities, our
24 more low-income communities.
.84
1 She has introduced legislation to
2 provide Federal funds and assistance to help
3 the Nation's most needy school districts to
4 accomplish this.
5 Thanks to her steadfast leadership,
6 school modernization is now recognized as a
7 priority for Congress.
8 Our Congresswoman has pushed hard for
9 increased support for after-school programs,
10 keeping kids productively busy during hours
11 when many lack supervision and get into
12 trouble.
13 She has helped school districts in
14 Westchester, in particular, to secure $1-1/2
15 million to fund after-school programs where
16 they are most needed.
17 We have a tradition of strong public
18 schools in Westchester County, and Nita
19 Lowey has relentlessly focused on investing
20 in public schools rather than abandoning
21 them to a private school voucher system.
22 She has voted against every effort in
23 Congress to initiate and fund voucher and
24 voucher-like programs, and we applaud her
.85
1 for that.
2 Nita Lowey has advocated greater
3 professional development opportunities for
4 school leaders, principals and
5 administrators.
6 To accomplish this, she has written
7 legislation to provide more such programs,
8 which is particularly important in view of
9 the growing dearth of candidates for
10 educational leadership in our schools, which
11 I am sure most of you in the State
12 Legislature are aware of.
13 Child health has been a priority for
14 Congresswoman Lowey, as it has for the State
15 Legislature, from lead poisoning initiatives
16 to medical insurance availability.
17 We can count on her vigorously to
18 advocate for measures that will promote the
19 health and wellbeing of the neediest
20 children and of all children.
21 Nita's concern for the appropriate
22 education of disabled children has led to
23 her support for full funding of the Federal
24 mandate at 40 percent of the excess cost of
.86
1 educating these children.
2 The mandate for special education is
3 right, but the great cost must be fairly
4 shared by the Federal Government.
5 I have followed Nita Lowey's voting
6 record since 1988 particularly on education
7 and child health issues.
8 She has a virtually perfect record not
9 only in my eyes but in the eyes of our area
10 schools and the National School Board
11 Association, in addition to child advocates.
12 She works hard. She provides strong
13 constituent services. She visits and knows
14 her diverse neighborhoods, towns, villages
15 and cities and, thereby, serves us extremely
16 well in this very, very complex and diverse
17 Congressional District which she represents.
18 Clearly, Nita Lowey's services will be
19 needed in the future particularly by those
20 who have no vote, our children, as they grow
21 up from babies to become our new voters, our
22 new workers, productive citizens, and
23 leaders; our future.
24 I hope you can keep this in mind as you
.87
1 make your difficult decisions to redistrict
2 the State of New York.
3 And I thank you very much for your
4 attention.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Congresswoman
6 Lowey's District runs from Westchester south
7 through the Bronx into Queens.
8 Could you just tell me, from your
9 experience on the ground, the relationship
10 between that portion of southeastern
11 Westchester and the Queens portion of this
12 District?
13 I mean, you have argued for the
14 diversity of this District and her ability
15 to pull these diverse interests together.
16 What community of interest, if any, do
17 you see between the Queens portion of the
18 District and the Westchester portion?
19 MS. MULLER: The community of
20 interest would be in the field of policies
21 that benefit children and education in the
22 State of New York and the Nation.
23 And, frankly, some of the problems in
24 the Queens area that she represents lead her
.88
1 to a better understanding of urban problems
2 which, in turn, of course -- in Westchester,
3 we have significant urban problems.
4 You cannot put yourself into a little
5 cubbyhole of all the same kind of people and
6 effectively set policy for America, for your
7 state or for your local community.
8 And I think that the Queens piece,
9 although it is, I am sure, difficult for her
10 to administer in terms of representing --
11 this long string down into Queens -- I think
12 she has been, from my understanding, very,
13 very effective in doing that and
14 representing these two parts, not all of
15 which are that different from each other,
16 although geographically they seem to be
17 strung out.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But you are
19 suggesting that the diverse nature of this
20 District may allow them to send a
21 representative to Congress who has an
22 understanding of the diversity not only of
23 New York State but potentially diversity of
24 the Nation which would make for a better
.89
1 National educational policy?
2 MS. MULLER: Absolutely. And I do
3 not think everybody would successfully be
4 able to represent such a complex
5 Congressional District.
6 But many of the issues in a Yonkers, in
7 a Mount Vernon, in a New Rochelle, which are
8 urban districts, are comparable, indeed, to
9 the City which is -- of course, Queens is
10 part of New York City.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you very
12 much.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Our next
14 witness is Margaret Gotti, and she is going
15 to be represented by Cheryl Howell of Pace
16 University.
17 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Senator, I
18 would like to recognize that we have been
19 joined by Assemblywoman Amy Pullen.
20 MS. HOWELL: My name is Cheryl
21 Howell, and I am the Executive Assistant to
22 Dr. Margaret Gotti, who is the Senior Vice-
23 President of Pace University.
24 She has asked me in her absence to read
.90
1 her testimony to you.
2 As you consider the important task of
3 creating new Congressional, State Senate and
4 Assembly District boundaries, I thank you
5 for the opportunity to provide public
6 comment on representation for the 18th
7 Congressional District.
8 If there is one person within the
9 Federal Government who is known mor
10 personally to those of us who participate in
11 or take an active interest in practical
12 politics, it is the Member of the House of
13 Representatives who serves our District.
14 As a resident of the 18th Congressional
15 District and an officer of one of the major
16 institutions of higher education located
17 within the 18th District, I have taken an
18 active interest in observing the composition
19 of the District and how the District has
20 been represented over the years.
21 I say without reservation that this
22 District has been served very well by the
23 Congresswoman Nita M. Lowey since her
24 election in 1988.
.91
1 A legislator may be viewed as one who
2 is acting as our delegate, while exercising
3 independent judgment on public issues.
4 Nita Lowey has represented the 18th
5 District with integrity and every-
6 increasing ability and knowledge on the
7 issues that impact its diverse
8 constituencies.
9 Pace University's motto is
10 "Opportunitas."
11 For almost 100 years, the faculty and
12 staff of Pace have been dedicated to the
13 mission of making higher education
14 accessible to men and women of diverse
15 talents and experiences.
16 Many of our students have been the
17 first in their families to receive a college
18 or university degree.
19 We continue to serve this mission with
20 the assistance of knowledgeable
21 representatives like Nita Lowey who share
22 the same understanding of the importance of
23 education in fulfilling the promise of the
24 American dream.
.92
1 In representing the racial, ethnic, and
2 socioeconomic diversity of the 18th
3 Congressional District, Nita Lowey stands
4 for "Opportunity."
5 Representative Lowey has been tireless
6 in her advocacy for affordable and
7 accessible higher education through tax
8 reform, including tuition deductibility and
9 increases in Federal student aid programs,
10 including Work- Study, Pell Grants, and
11 Federal loan programs.
12 Institutions of higher education in the
13 18th District have received Federal
14 education funds for such programs as the
15 Mercy College initiative to enhance
16 accessibility for and retention of non-
17 traditional students and Pace University's
18 partnership with other Hudson Valley
19 institutions to create a Center for Emerging
20 Technologies aimed at spurring economic
21 development in the region.
22 College and university students must be
23 prepared to meet the challenges of an
24 ever-changing job market.
.93
1 And Representative Lowey has been a
2 strong ally in facing these and other
3 significant higher education issues.
4 Nita Lowey understands the complex
5 needs of the constituents of the 18th
6 District.
7 She knows the role of the Federal
8 Government in helping students to access
9 higher education.
10 She understands the intent of the Pell
11 Grant and other programs in providing aid to
12 the millions of needy students and their
13 families.
14 In concert with Representative Lowey,
15 the numerous institutions of higher
16 education, public and private, located
17 within the 18th Congressional District serve
18 the diverse population of the District by
19 helping students to complete their studies
20 and become productive and contributing
21 members of society who will have a positive
22 effect on the Nation's future.
23 Nita Lowey has also been a supporter of
24 the research agendas of our institutions on
.94
1 issues such as land use, environmental
2 protection, sustainable development, and
3 biomedical research.
4 As a member of Representative Lowey's
5 Service Academy Review Board, I have had
6 occasion to observe her commitment to yet
7 another vehicle for providing educational
8 opportunities to worthy constituents.
9 During my time as a resident of the
10 18th District, I have served my community as
11 a school board member, hospital trustee,
12 board member of not-for- profit organiations
13 including the Red Cros, Salvation Army,
14 YMCA, United Way, a public/private
15 partnership for services to the aging, youth
16 boards, and a social service information and
17 referral agency, as well as a number of
18 business and economic development
19 organizations.
20 I have come to fully appreciate the
21 importance of diversity.
22 Diversity abounds in the 18th
23 Congressional District.
24 Our communities are stronger because of
.95
1 the diversity. Our children are enriched by
2 the experiences afforded by this diversity
3 in preparing them for their places in a
4 global economy.
5 Representative Lowey fully understands
6 and appreciates the importance of a district
7 like the 18th as it mirrors the rich
8 diversity of our region, our State, and the
9 Nation.
10 The 18th Congressional District, as we
11 know it, is "Opportunity." The 18th
12 Congressional District is our future.
13 Again, thank you for providing the
14 opportunity to participate in the important
15 work of the Legislative Task Force on
16 Demographic Research and Reapportionment.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much.
18 The next speaker is Timothy Idoni,
19 Mayor of New Rochelle.
20 MAYOR IDONI: Good afternoon,
21 gentlemen. Thank you for coming to
22 Westchester.
23 My name is Tim Idoni. I am the Mayor
24 of New Rochelle, which is the 7th largest
.96
1 city in the State of New York and the second
2 largest in Westchester County.
3 I have also served as President of the
4 Westchester Municipal Officials Association.
5 I was the President of the New York
6 State Municipal Management Association a
7 number of years ago.
8 It is an honor to stand before this
9 panel as you take on this most serious of
10 subjects which will have such an important
11 impact on the residents of each and every
12 community throughout our Nation.
13 The shape of our Congressional
14 Districts will truly shape the future of our
15 Nation.
16 We are represented in New Rochelle by
17 two Congresspeople: Eliot Engle, who has
18 done a wonderful job in terms of affordable
19 housing and a number of other issues, but
20 represents a very small portion of our City.
21 I also wish to discuss the impact of
22 New Rochelle's own Member of Congress, Nita
23 M. Lowey, who has had, over the past decade,
24 an indisputable recognition nationally that
.97
1 she has received as one of the Nation's
2 great leaders in the areas of women's
3 rights, breast cancer research and the
4 public advocacy of the arts.
5 Even Bert and Ernie of Sesame Street
6 could testify to that.
7 But I would also like to bring to your
8 attention her wonderful work on behalf of
9 our municipalities.
10 Her wonderful attention to the details
11 of smaller communities and small cities such
12 as New Rochelle has led me to dub her
13 "Council Member Lowey", as if she had also
14 been voted to a seat on our New Rochelle
15 City Council.
16 A few years ago, we asked Congresswoman
17 Lowey to sit down and discuss the needs of
18 modernizing our city's infrastructure and,
19 in particular, the need to promote mass
20 transportation in the suburbs.
21 Congresswoman Lowey listened intently
22 to the city's vision for an intermodal
23 transportation center, modeled after the
24 distinguished United States Senator Daniel
.98
1 Patrick Moynihan's Federal legislation,
2 which superbly recognized the need to reduce
3 commutation issues by combining
4 transportation systems in large metropolitan
5 areas.
6 Congresswoman Lowey's work over the
7 past five years has taken a project --
8 well-designed and well-meaning but
9 languishing in the Federal bureaucracy --
10 and made it a reality.
11 Construction will begin some tim eearly
12 next year thanks to the assistance of the
13 Federal Transportation Administration, the
14 County of Westchester, and our own city
15 officials, all brought together by Council
16 member -- or, should I say, Congresswoman
17 Nita Lowey.
18 She recently was able to obtain funding
19 for the vital rehabilitation of the major
20 arterial North Avenue, which leads thousands
21 of travelers to the Intermodal
22 Transportation, as well.
23 And her work does not stop there. Time
24 limits me to just two other quick items.
.99
1 Her advocacy for the restoration of our
2 city's greatest asset, Long Island Sound, to
3 its former glory is exemplary.
4 From wetlands restoration at our city's
5 glorious Five Island Park to her call for
6 billions of dollars in funding to remove the
7 blight of nitrogen poisoning -- spoiling the
8 recreational and fishing industry -- Nita
9 Lowey has been there for us.
10 And Congresswoman Lowey has recognized
11 our city's most pressing problem in its most
12 important service -- education -- what to do
13 after our most outstanding school district
14 releases our children from clasess at 3:15
15 p.m.
16 Working closely with our city and its
17 Board of Education, Congresswoman Lowey has
18 obtained funding for after- school programs
19 which will encourage students to remain
20 after school to participate in extra work
21 sessions and recreational programs which
22 provide an alternative to the streets and
23 unsupervised activities.
24 I must put on the record that this
.100
1 program has been a resounding success.
2 I will add that, technically, if I had
3 my druthers -- and Nita Lowey has not asked
4 me to say this -- I believe that, if a
5 district needs to be increased, it probably
6 should be increased in the area of the Town
7 of Greenburg, which is the largest town in
8 the County of Westchester and really has
9 very, very common issues to the City of New
10 Rochelle and other areas of her District.
11 I will not say anything about Queens at
12 this point in time. I would certainly
13 answer any questions if I have to.
14 While your panel has a difficult job to
15 do, I would urge all those who have a hand
16 in the decision-making process to keep in
17 mind the outstanding accomplishments of this
18 great American.
19 Nita Lowey's work on behalf of her
20 district and, in particular, the City of New
21 Rochelle, is second to none.
22 I will interject, in terms of the State
23 Redistricting, that we are also very, very
24 happy with our legislators, three of whom
.101
1 are here today.
2 We wish that you would keep the
3 districts the way they are.
4 If there are any changes whatsoever, we
5 wish that the City of New Rochelle would
6 have a predominant legislator as well.
7 But I think it is important that we
8 have one legislator on both sides; in our
9 case, Susie Oppenheimer, in Montauk; she
10 represents a majority of the city, since we
11 are the seventh largest city in the State.
12 And I wish you all the best of luck in
13 your work.
14 And I thank you very much for your
15 time.
16 Thank you.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Are
18 there any questions?
19 (No response.)
20 SENATOR SKELOS: The next speaker is
21 Nancy Seligson.
22 MS. SELIGSON: Good afternoon. Thank
23 you for the opportunity to speak.
24 I am currently a councilwoman on the
.102
1 Town Board of the Town of Mamaroneck.
2 I also chair the Westchester County
3 Environmental Management Council.
4 I have been a member of the Citizens
5 Advisory Committee of the Long Island Sound
6 Study for nine years.
7 I was the president and am currently a
8 board member of Save the Sound, a non-profit
9 environmental organization focused on
10 protecting and promoting appreciation of
11 Long Iland Sound and its watershed.
12 And I am here today to speak on behalf
13 of Nita Lowey's efforts in these areas, as
14 well.
15 I am speaking as a private citizen,
16 though.
17 Nita Lowey has worked hard and
18 creatively and cooperatively for Long Island
19 Sound for over 10 years.
20 She has authored significant proposed
21 legislation for increased funding for
22 implementing the Management Plan for Long
23 Island Sound and for upgrading the sewage
24 treatment plants.
.103
1 She has championed having
2 environmentalists work together with
3 business and tradespeople to recognize our
4 shared interests and to be more productive.
5 She has been the co-Chair of the
6 Bi-State Long Island Sound Congressional
7 Caucus and worked across party lines to
8 encourage support for Long Island Sound.
9 In addition, she has been very
10 successful in securing substantial funds for
11 watershed protection and habitat restoration
12 in Westchester County, just as Mayor Idoni
13 mentioned.
14 She has also helped fund and support a
15 program called the Community Leadership
16 Alliance Program.
17 It is run out of Pace University's
18 land-use law center.
19 And it is a training program for
20 community leaders, teaching them about
21 land-use issues and leadership training.
22 The program reaches community leaders
23 in Westchester County, Putnam, Dutchess and
24 Columbia Counties.
.104
1 I would say, simply put, that Nita
2 Lowey is a leader for environmental
3 protection in our region and a champion of
4 the most important natural resource in the
5 area.
6 Long Island Sound is a treasured
7 natural resource for all of us, and it is a
8 natural link that currently runs throughout
9 her District.
10 And I am pleased and proud to have been
11 able to work with her on these issues.
12 Thank you for the opportunity to speak
13 this afternoon.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Are
15 there any questions?
16 (No response.)
17 SENATOR SKELOS: The next speaker is
18 Ms. Susan Wang, President of Gilda's Club in
19 Westchester.
20 MS. WANG: My name is Susie Wang, and
21 I am President of Gilda's Club, Westchester.
22 I am very pleased to be here today to
23 talk about Gilda's Club Westchester's
24 experience in working with Representative
.105
1 Nita Lowey, a valued member of the New York
2 delegation.
3 Westchester is a strong and growing
4 county, with very diverse communities,
5 strong neighborhoods and many challenges.
6 We need representatives in Congress
7 that can work to bring people together; to
8 think creatively about education, health
9 care, social services, and economic
10 development.
11 Nita Lowey has been an effective and
12 hard-working advocate for Westchester.
13 She listens. She builds consensus.
14 And she delivers for us.
15 Gilda's Club Westchester is a place
16 where people with cancer and thier families
17 and friends join with others to buil social
18 an emotional support as a supplement to
19 medical care.
20 Located on Maple Avenue in White
21 Plains, Gilda's Club welcomes men, women,
22 and children living with cancer, and
23 facilitates building a foundation to plan
24 social and emotional support for learning
.106
1 how to live with cancer, whatever the
2 outcome.
3 Three out of four families in
4 Westchester County are affected by cancer.
5 Knowing these statistics all too well,
6 Congresswoman Lowey is regularly addressing
7 this program as it affects all of us.
8 I sought out the advice of the
9 Congresswoman early in the development of
10 our vision.
11 Congresswoman Lowey's door was always
12 open to us.
13 She was encouraging throughout this
14 process because she knew the importance of
15 providing such an invaluable service to our
16 community.
17 She was instrumental in securing
18 support for us so that we could create a
19 warm, non-residential home-like community
20 environment in Westchester where people have
21 an opportunity to connect and share
22 experiences with other people living with
23 cancer.
24 Licensed mental health professionals
.107
1 facilitate support with networking groups
2 and arrange a monthly program calendar of
3 lectures and workshops and social events.
4 Our clubhouse is completely
5 handicapped-accessible and enables everyone,
6 children and seniors alike, to easily
7 maneuver about and participate in all
8 activities.
9 There is no charge for membership or
10 anything else at Gilda's Club Westchester.
11 The Congresswoman knew that when cancer
12 happens, it happens to the whole family.
13 She could appreciate the need for a
14 program and special playroom for children
15 and adolescents with cancer or who have a
16 family member living with cancer.
17 That is why she worked so hard to help
18 us create our clubhouse.
19 She worked hard so that we could bring
20 the Gila's Club Noogieland concept to her
21 constituents and their families who are in
22 need.
23 Noogieland meets Federal daycare
24 hygiene standards to ensure a safe
.108
1 environment for children.
2 With the thought of helping the sick
3 chilren and their loved ones, the
4 Congresswoman was comitted to providing
5 incredible opportunities for the people she
6 represents.
7 These opportunities include a program
8 called "Smalltalk", which is a support play
9 group for children under 13 who have a
10 family member living with cancer.
11 Also included is "Teen Time", a
12 volunteer meeting with opportunities to help
13 around the clubhouse for teens who have
14 cancer in their families.
15 There is "Noogie Nights", which is
16 special play hours for chilren while their
17 family member with cancer attends clubhouse
18 activities.
19 We have "Customized Play" and support
20 activities for children of all ages with
21 cancer.
22 And we have a "Transition Program" for
23 post-treatment chilren with cancer who are
24 moving out of the hospital and are on their
.109
1 way back to school, peers, and home.
2 Congresswoman Lowey has been a strong
3 supporter of this effort and many of our
4 other undertakings.
5 She has recently participated as our
6 keynote speaker to an assembly of affiliates
7 from around th world at the First Annual
8 Gilda's Club WorldWide Affiliates Conference
9 which Gilda's Club Westchester hosted right
10 here in White Plains this past May.
11 As the senior New York Democrat on the
12 House Appropriations Committee, she has
13 given us unique insight into the funding
14 process an practical guidance on how to
15 expand Federal support for Gilda's Club
16 Westchester.
17 Recently, the Congresswoman became a
18 member of the House Democratic Leadership,
19 where she has even more opportunity to look
20 out for the interests of Westchester.
21 Her years of experience, her
22 willingness to fight for us, and her ability
23 to accomplish things for all of Westchester
24 makes her an invaluable asset to our vibrant
.110
1 county.
2 Gilda's Club Westchester is about love,
3 support, friendship an community.
4 Nita Lowey is about love, support,
5 friendship, and community.
6 Both are a perfect match for
7 Westchester County.
8 We could not have done it without her.
9 I hope that the Task Force will
10 seriously consider the importance of
11 preserving our community's relationship with
12 Congresswoman Nita Lowey.
13 We, in Westchester, sleep better at
14 night knowing that she is our representative
15 in Congress.
16 Thank you for the opportunity to
17 testify.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Are
19 there any questions?
20 (No response.)
21 SENATOR SKELOS: The next speaker is
22 the Honorable Joseph Panafko, Mayor of
23 Highland Falls.
24 MAYOR PANAFKO: Good afternoon. My
.111
1 name is Joseph Panafko. I am the Mayor of
2 the Village of Highland Falls, which is in
3 Orange County.
4 And I am happy to be here today to take
5 part in these hearings.
6 I want to thank the State Legislative
7 Task Force on Demographics Research and
8 Reapportionment for the opportunity for me
9 to present the views of my constituents.
10 In our country's republican form of
11 government, we choose representatives who
12 reflect our values.
13 In Highland Falls, we understand and
14 appreciate hard work, commitment to
15 community and the effort of our neighbors to
16 make better the lives of their families.
17 Whether coaching Little League teams,
18 shoveling out our neighbor after a winter
19 storm or saving up for a family vacation,
20 this type of hard work makes the village I
21 represent better.
22 These contributions build a closeness
23 between neighbors and help build our
24 community.
.112
1 There is not a community in New York
2 that cannot be improved without the work and
3 support of good neighbors.
4 Today, I am here to tell you about the
5 work of someone I consider a good neighbor,
6 Sue Kelly, or Congresswoman Kelly, as she is
7 known in Washington.
8 She has gone to bat for the Village of
9 Highland Falls and Orange County, and has
10 brought home some great things for our
11 community.
12 Congresswoman Kelly was a good neighbor
13 for Orange County when she introduced
14 legislation and worked for its passage under
15 the Impact Aid Program that increased the
16 funding to the Highland Falls-Fort
17 Montgomery School District from $300,000 to
18 $1 million a year.
19 Her efforts helped improve the quality
20 of education for hundreds of Orange County
21 youngsters.
22 Congresswoman Kelly's work in
23 Washington is appreciated, and her
24 leadership is timely, compassionate and in
.113
1 the best interests of her fellow citizens.
2 When brush fires threatened West Point
3 last year, Congresswoman Kelly worked with
4 Federal agencies, including the Department
5 of Defense, to combat these fires.
6 Her efforts did not stop when the fires
7 ended.
8 Congresswoman Kelly recently secured $3
9 million to purchase two Firehawk
10 Firefighting Kits, which will be installed
11 aboard UH-60 Blackhawk Helicopters to better
12 fight brush fires in rugged terrain.
13 When the hard rains of Hurricane Floyd
14 washed out parts of our local communities,
15 Congresswoman Kelly secured disaster
16 assistance to repair the damage.
17 This aid helped local citizens and
18 businesses to get back and up and running
19 again.
20 Highland Falls relies on Sue Kelly.
21 Congresswoman Kelly understands the
22 needs of our community.
23 Whether it is through her consituents'
24 service helping our seniors and elderly with
.114
1 their Social Security checks or working with
2 veterans to file their disability claims,
3 Congresswoman Kelly has worked hard for the
4 19th Congressional District.
5 Congresswoman Kelly's good deeds have
6 not stopped at the city limits.
7 All of Orange County has benefitted by
8 her work in Washington.
9 To help spur economic activity,
10 Congresswoman Kelly introduced special
11 legislation that was later signed into law
12 to authorize the transfer of 291 acres of
13 the Department of Defense land at Stewart
14 Airport to the community of New Winsor to
15 help economic development.
16 Whether it has been in times of crisis
17 or a time of calm, Congresswoman Kelly's
18 leadership has helped strengthen our
19 country, our county, our communities.
20 And I can tell you firsthand that
21 Congresswoman Kelly has helped strengthen
22 the village that I represent.
23 Since World War II, New York has
24 consistently lost representation in
.115
1 Washington.
2 Each time, we have had to come together
3 and determine what is the best way for our
4 State to be represented in Congress.
5 I can tell you here today that the
6 State of New York, Orange County, and all of
7 the communities in the 19th Congressional
8 District are better represented in
9 Washington with Sue Kelly as our
10 representative.
11 As we continue through this process, if
12 we abandon our good neighbors, our
13 communities will lose out on the important
14 contributions from Washington that helps
15 build our community and make Orange County a
16 better place.
17 It is my recommendation to this panel
18 not to disturb the integrity of the 19th
19 Congressional District.
20 Our values have found a voice in
21 Washington, and we call her Congresswoman
22 Sue Kelly.
23 I thank you very much for allowing me
24 this time.
.116
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Are
2 there any questions?
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I just have one
4 question.
5 My question is one that I asked a
6 number of the speakers earlier about a
7 specific fact.
8 Given the fact that we have to expand
9 this district -- in this case -- only by
10 27,000, would -- I mean, there has been a
11 suggestion about going north on the east
12 side.
13 In your judgment, as someone on the
14 ground, would you expand it to the west,
15 west of the Hudson, or do you believe you
16 have more of a community of interest with
17 the east side of the Hudson?
18 I mean, you tell me.
19 MAYOR PANAFKO: Sir, good question.
20 And I will -- I can say these things.
21 Whether you go north or whether you go
22 west of where the Village of Highland Falls
23 is, right on the Hudson on the west side,
24 the communities are the same in that the
.117
1 majority of the population are commuters;
2 they're rural.
3 So, they are basically the same. Now,
4 I will say this. We have a county
5 legislator that represents the Village of
6 Highland Falls, the Hamlet of Fort
7 Montgomery and also, on the other side of
8 the mountain going west, if you will, the
9 communities of Central Valley and Highland
10 Mills, the Town of Woodbury.
11 So, there is a county legislator that
12 is split there.
13 Maybe I -- without thinking about it a
14 lot, maybe I would go west.
15 I mean, if I had to pick today, right
16 now, I would say go west.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The reason why I
18 asked that question is that we have heard
19 discussion throughout the State, especially
20 with respect to the cities, the circular
21 effect; that communities tend to move out
22 and have communities of interest that can
23 run in a circle around a city rather than --
24 and that what we should look to do, we have
.118
1 been told, is to unite those circular
2 communities, rather than to move further out
3 and combine rural, suburban and urban
4 communities.
5 What is the best way to describe this?
6 This of this as -- rather than like a
7 pizza and how you cut a pizza slice, instead
8 just create circles with the same center.
9 So, it would be your judgment that if
10 we are going to combine a community of
11 interest in this northern Westchester area,
12 we could go on both sides of the River and
13 get communities that are relatively
14 comparable, rather than going all the way up
15 one side of the Hudson or all the way up the
16 other where we would be combining more rural
17 with suburban and more urban?
18 MAYOR PANAFKO: Very much so.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Very good, sir.
20 One final question. An earlier speaker
21 talked about the rapid growth of Dutchess
22 County as changing the character of that
23 community.
24 Is there a comparable growth in a
.119
1 community similarly situated to Dutchess on
2 the west side that would give us that
3 growing community in transformation from a
4 rural suburban community to a more urban kin
5 of retail, office building type scenario?
6 Is there a comparable place on the west
7 side?
8 MAYOR PANAFKO: In exactly the same
9 area that I spoke about, west of the Village
10 of Highland Falls; the Town of Woodbury.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So, if we were
12 going to connect those having a community of
13 interest, it would be your suggestion that
14 we could kind of draw a band across that
15 section of Hudson?
16 MAYOR PANAFKO: Yes, sir. It would
17 be very comparable to what is there now to
18 the District, very much so.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you.
20 MAYOR PANAFKO: Thank you.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Ms. Suzanne Burger
22 of Dobbs Ferry, New York?
23 MS. BURGER: Good afternoon. I am
24 pleased to testify here this afternoon.
.120
1 My name is Suzanne Burger. I am the
2 Chair of the Democratic Committee in Dobbs
3 Ferry, but I speak today as a voter in the
4 current 20th Congressional District and a
5 resident of the Town of Greenburg here in
6 Westchester County for more than 10 years.
7 My remarks this afternoon are to
8 suggest that the 20th Congressional District
9 remain roughly as it is currently configured
10 and include the roughly 80,000 citizens of
11 the Town of Greenburg.
12 Perhaps, if additional residents are
13 needed, we would include others from
14 contiguous parts of Westchester County to
15 allow for redistricting.
16 Now, this was not my initial reaction
17 when I was first asked this question.
18 But after thinking through various
19 options, I have come to believe that the
20 current configuration promotes three
21 positive values.
22 The first is that it would make the
23 20th Congressional District a competitive
24 district were there to be an open seat in
.121
1 the future because, although we have heard a
2 lot of talk about incumbents here today, the
3 purpose of this Committee is not to address
4 the incumbents but to talk about the next 10
5 years.
6 I believe that both Democrats and
7 Republicans would have a chance in this
8 District were there an open seat.
9 And I believe strongly that a
10 competitive race enhances the importance of
11 each community within that District.
12 Second, the District shares many common
13 concerns.
14 Greenburg and Rockland share the Hudson
15 River.
16 The District shares the Tappan Zee
17 Bridge.
18 Whether there should be a new bridge
19 and, if so, where, will be an issue of much
20 debate in the coming years.
21 Many of the residents of these
22 communities commute to New York City, and
23 that gives them another commonality of
24 interest.
.122
1 Rockland's population is expanding; its
2 traffic and congestion issues mirror those
3 faced by Greenburg communities.
4 And land-use, resource, and clean-air
5 issues must be addressed in a large forum.
6 We also share the Gannett Newspaper.
7 The list of commonalities is long.
8 The third thing is that keeping roughly
9 the same District would promote stability
10 and familiarity to the voters in recognizing
11 the Congressional community that they have
12 been part of.
13 I want to return for one minute to the
14 first point I made, and that is competitive
15 elections.
16 We hear constantly that citizens do not
17 vote, the percentage of citizens voting gets
18 lower and lower in every succeding election.
19 Young people, we hear, are just not
20 voting.
21 This week The New York Times ran an
22 article on its Education Page citing a study
23 that found that participation in school
24 government and school newspapers had a
.123
1 significant correlation with students'
2 predilection for voting as an adult, but
3 civics classes alone do not.
4 In my opinion, people vote if they
5 believe the results are not preordained.
6 And for them to believe that, we need
7 competitive districts.
8 My guess is that because of the very
9 close election we just witnessed, both the
10 Presidential Election or on the upper East
11 Side of Manhattan, for example, turnout will
12 be much higher in the next cycle at least in
13 those communities.
14 If the residents of the 20th
15 Congressional District believe that their
16 vote will make a difference and if they
17 believe that every vote will be recognized
18 and needed, two things will happen: Their
19 representative will make sure that the
20 constituents' needs are addressed, and the
21 residents will come out and vote.
22 That will be a healthy outcome for this
23 redistricting process in which this State
24 will unfortunately be losing two seats in
.124
1 the United States Congress.
2 Thank you for your time this morning.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you.
4 Questions?
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I just have a
6 question.
7 I appreciate your interest in a
8 competitive contest.
9 Would you define that for me?
10 MS. BURGER: Yes. I believe I am
11 using it today to stand for districts that
12 are not overwhelmingly Republican or
13 Democrat or do not vote overwhelmingly
14 Republican or Democrat so that people of
15 both parties have a chance to succeed and to
16 represent and to come out and provide
17 services for their constituents to make sure
18 that they have the support of the entire
19 community, and to not just rely on being
20 re-elected.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And I want to ask
22 you the tougher question.
23 What do you mean by the phrase
24 "overwhelming"?
.125
1 And here is the reason why I ask that.
2 I understand the interest in balancing
3 competitive districts.
4 Understand that one of the facts that
5 exists in this State that none of the people
6 at this table can do anything about is that
7 there are almost twice as many Democrats as
8 Republicans.
9 Recognize that there are geography
10 issues that clearly affect the locations of
11 Democrats and Republicans, all of which are
12 things that we have to consider; geography
13 and communities of interest.
14 And, therefore, what you are in essence
15 suggesting is that we somehow put a
16 political value -- in your case, neutrality
17 or competitiveness, however you wish to
18 phrase it -- above the other factors.
19 I that what you are suggesting?
20 MS. BURGER: I am not suggesting that
21 it be above other factors such as
22 commonaltiy of interest in community.
23 But I am suggesting that it should be
24 an additional factor that is considered if
.126
1 you have many communities that have those
2 commonalities of interest.
3 I think that it encourages people to
4 participate in elections in their community
5 when they feel that their voice will be
6 heard.
7 And when they feel a race is
8 preordained, they do not participate to the
9 same extent.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And the only
11 other reason why I ask is that I think you
12 can look at several people sitting here and
13 probably myself included where the notion of
14 how you got to office the first time in a
15 competitive race may disappear over the
16 course of a decade.
17 Whether it may be, as some people would
18 suggest -- or, certainly, I would like to
19 suggest; I am sure other elected officials
20 would.
21 We have worked hard. We have done a
22 lot to promote our Disrict, to do things for
23 our District.
24 The nature of what may appear to be a
.127
1 competitive race over the course of time
2 becomes uncompetitive because of either
3 changing demographics or, in some cases,
4 because of the industriousness of a
5 particular incumbent.
6 That is why I think, just as you think
7 about the concept of what a fair fight or a
8 competitive district would be, it might be
9 competitive for one moment and then not be
10 halfway through the decade.
11 MS. BURGER: Well, we may have that
12 moment coming up in the next 10 years in the
13 20th Congressional District.
14 And we would like to be able to take
15 advantage of it to make that a competitive
16 race at that time.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Again,
18 just so you understand the complexity of
19 what we are dealing with, it is difficult
20 for us to forecast the demographic,
21 political and other changes that might
22 create a competitive race at some time in
23 the longer future.
24 Even that is something that, I think,
.128
1 is enormously difficult to do.
2 MS. BURGER: I agree. But I think if
3 you look at a photograph as it is today in
4 your current Census figures, you would be
5 able to keep that in your minds as you were
6 redrawing the districts, along with the many
7 other factors that I know you have to
8 consider.
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Thank you
10 very much.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. The next
12 speaker is Joseph Murphy. Is Mr. Murphy
13 here?
14 (No response.)
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. Jim Foy, CEO of
16 St. John's Riverside Hospital?
17 MR. FOY: Good afternoon. My name is
18 Jim Foy, and I am President and Chief
19 Executive Officer of Riverside Health Care
20 System.
21 I am most pleased to be able to speak
22 with you today about St. John's Riverside
23 Hospital, Yonkers General Hospital, and
24 Michael Malotte's (phonetic) Skilled Nursing
.129
1 Pavilion's experience in working with
2 Representative Nita Lowey.
3 Those are the components of Riverside
4 Health Care System.
5 All of our facilities are located in
6 the City of Yonkers, a remarkably diverse
7 city including both pleasant suburban
8 communities and inner city neighborhoods
9 afflicted by the ravages of poverty, age,
10 alcohol and substance abuse.
11 While our hospitals work to address the
12 health care problems of all of our
13 communities, we are frequently frustrated by
14 the red tape of managed care and the
15 dramatically growing problem of the
16 uninsured.
17 Whether it has been in developing new
18 services in our Designated Aid Center,
19 expanding our Alcohol and Substance Abuse
20 Programs or in overcoming bureaucratic
21 roadblocks in the building of our badly
22 needed nursing home, Nita Lowey has always
23 been there for our community; I might say
24 along with the our committed State
.130
1 Legistrators Richard Brodsky, Derrick
2 Burlow, Nick and Mike Spano.
3 Nita takes the time to understand the
4 problems we face and works creatively to
5 craft solutions.
6 As the Senior Democrat on the House
7 Appropriations Commitee, she has taught us
8 how to navigate the pathways of Congress in
9 health and human services effectively.
10 Perhaps most importantly, she has
11 always been willing to take the time to not
12 only address our institutions' problems but
13 the individual problems of the patients we
14 serve.
15 In closing, let me say that I find it
16 hard to conceive of how we would deal with
17 the myriad of problems we face now without
18 Nita Lowey.
19 I implore you to recognize the value of
20 this wonderful lady, and do what is
21 necessary to allow her to continue to serve
22 our community.
23 If I might add, in addressing a
24 question that was asked by Senator Dollinger
.131
1 earlier to one of the other speakers, while
2 our area in Westchester is divided by water
3 from Queens, the problems in health care
4 that we are faced with are almost exactly
5 the same as those in Queens.
6 I had the benefit of serving for 18
7 years in various administrative positions in
8 hospitals in Queens, in the other part of
9 Representative Lowey's District, and I must
10 say that the problems that I face in Yonkers
11 are in no way any different from the ones
12 that we faced in Queens.
13 And Nita helped us on both sides.
14 So, I thank you.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Thank
16 you very much for your concise statement.
17 Ms. Janet Whitley Snyder?
18 (No response.)
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. Alan Harris?
20 (No response.)
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Joseph Goubeaud?
22 MR. GOUBEAUD: My name is Joe
23 Goubeaud. I am from the City of Mount
24 Vernon, G-o-u-b-e-a-u-d.
.132
1 It is really not that unusual, the
2 spelling.
3 I have been involved in politics in
4 Mount Vernon and in the community of Mount
5 Vernon for more than 25 years.
6 And I have gone through a number of
7 redistrictings.
8 Starting back in 1980, we were served
9 by one senator, one assemblyman and I
10 believe one congressperson.
11 In 1981, when that redistricting
12 happened, the City of Mount Vernon was
13 essentially split up.
14 And, initially, many of the City
15 residents and the community organizations
16 were upset by that fact, based upon the fact
17 that we then had three State senators, two
18 assemblypeople and two congressional
19 representatives.
20 It has worked to our benefit over the
21 last 20 years, I will say.
22 And my purpose in being here today is
23 to ask you to continue along those lines.
24 Going back to the first speaker who was
.133
1 here, RoseMarie Panio, she talked about the
2 commonality, meaning that you should keep
3 the district so that the people in the
4 districts are similar and have similar
5 interests.
6 And while many people talk about the
7 Bronx being the end of the New York City and
8 lower Westchester being the beginning of
9 Westchester, there are many characteristics
10 and traits which carry through right over
11 that border.
12 And the communities continue -- once
13 again, referring back, as RoseMarie Panio
14 did, to ancient history almost.
15 In 1891, most of the Bronx was
16 Westchester County.
17 The first Westchester County Courthouse
18 is located at Westchester Avenue and Tremont
19 Avenue in the Bronx.
20 And many of those local towns, such as
21 Williams Bridge, King's Bridge, Eastchester
22 and Westchester, itself, were located in
23 what is now Bronx County.
24 That community has continued and I
.134
1 believe has been represented well by the
2 State senators who have represented us over
3 the years; starting with Senator Colangela,
4 who was the first one who crossed that
5 border between the Bronx and Westchester in
6 terms of representing parts of Westchester,
7 and continuing with Senator Velella, Senator
8 Gallagher, Seabrook and Thompson, who have
9 -- Senator Thompson just started last year.
10 It has benefitted the City of Mount
11 Vernon to be represented by two different
12 representatives in both in the Senate and in
13 the Assembly, as well as the House of
14 Representatives.
15 Because of the fact that even within
16 the City of Mount Vernon, which is 70,000
17 people roughly -- and it is only four square
18 miles -- there are even divisions with
19 respect to the community.
20 And those divisions have been there a
21 long time.
22 And the Mayor, I believe, did speak
23 earlier as well that there are, in fact, two
24 communities in Mount Vernon.
.135
1 And they have fit very well in the
2 Legislative Districts which have been there.
3 And we would ask you to continue that
4 because having two representatives represent
5 the City has aided us.
6 Senator Velella has been quite
7 successful in obtaining funding for the City
8 of Mount Vernon for a number of the
9 community organizations.
10 He specifically worked with one of the
11 parks where the City had indicated that they
12 just did not have the money to do it.
13 They were able to do it. He has worked
14 very well with the community organizations.
15 So, it is my request that you consider
16 leaving those boundaries somewhat the way
17 they are.
18 I know there was some concern -- and
19 many of the people have been concerned -- I
20 believe the gentleman from Poughkeepsie had
21 indicated that he felt the counties should
22 stay by themselves.
23 I would argue that it should not in all
24 situations be considered that way because
.136
1 the legislators that we do have are
2 representing us very well and representing
3 the community that we have.
4 Thank you.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I just have one
6 question.
7 You spoke about the benefits of Mount
8 Vernon being represented by two members of
9 the State Senate, correct?
10 MR. GOUBEAUD: Correct.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And I hear your
12 testimony that, given your preference, you
13 would like that to continue?
14 MR. GOUBEAUD: That is correct.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But that does not
16 require that we cut the Bronx/Westchester
17 County line.
18 We could cut a district in which a
19 portion of Mount Vernon is in a
20 Westchester-only district and a portion of
21 it is in another Westchester-only district.
22 Would we not get the same benefit for
23 your community without doing that, without
24 going to the Bronx?
.137
1 MR. GOUBEAUD: I would argue no
2 because, between 1981 and 1991, we were
3 represented by three senators: Senator
4 Pasani, who had the Sound/Shore Area which
5 is basically New Rochelle and the
6 Sound/Shore communities.
7 His main attention was the Sound/Shore
8 communities and Mount Vernon pretty much was
9 forgotten.
10 We had a small portion which was
11 represented by Senator Flynn, approximately
12 six or eight election districts on the west
13 side of Mount Vernon.
14 Senator Flynn's concern was Yonkers,
15 and he paid basically no attention to Mount
16 Vernon.
17 Senator Colangela, who was the one who
18 did cross the boundary line at that point in
19 time, paid attention to Mount Vernon; I will
20 say that, and I will speak freely that he
21 did.
22 He started it. We started to get some
23 legislative punch in the Senate at that
24 point in time.
.138
1 And it helped the City of Mount Vernon.
2 So, I would argue that, should you
3 think of dividing it a different way in
4 terms of picking up Mount Vernon with
5 another Westchester city, we would lose any
6 effectiveness that we do have.
7 Much of the City of Mount Vernon, when
8 they drew that line in or about 1892, when
9 the Bronx became the Bronx and Westchester
10 became Westchester, almost every parcel
11 along that line has the boundary line
12 running through it.
13 So, if you own a piece of property near
14 that Bronx line, parts of it are in Mount
15 Vernon and parts of that particular piece of
16 property are in the Bronx.
17 And while many people like to say, "Oh,
18 we do not know anything about the Bronx," it
19 is there and it is very much a part of the
20 City of Mount Vernon.
21 And the communities do run back and
22 forth.
23 There are approximately three or four
24 churches in that area as well which -- the
.139
1 main church is located in the Bronx, an they
2 had a mission church, so to speak, in the
3 City of Mount Vernon.
4 So, there is a commonality, a sense of
5 community.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It is just
7 interesting that you talk about the time in
8 the creation of a county line.
9 It was also right about that time, in
10 1894, that the Constitution was amended to
11 give counties -- at least in the State
12 Constitution -- give county lines greater
13 preeminence in the redistricting process
14 because of the requirements to try to keep
15 counties whole.
16 That is why I asked the question.
17 I mean, if the benefit is to get two
18 members, whether they be Republican or
19 Democrat, representing Mount Vernon, you
20 coul do that without having to cross the
21 Bronx County line.
22 MR. GOUBEAUD: As I said, that is
23 true; we do have a Democrat and a Republican
24 representing Mount Vernon at this point.
.140
1 And I believe it is a nice balance.
2 But, as I said, when we did have other
3 Westchester County legislators, as, so to
4 speak, our split-senators, they were not as
5 effective because they did actually pay more
6 attention to the other communities.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But you have
8 talked and a number of other people have
9 talked about Senator Velella's, I think,
10 unquestioned capability with his
11 constituents --
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Well, Senator, if I
13 could interrupt, what the gentleman has also
14 said is that there has been a pattern
15 established even prior to Senator Velella
16 through Senator Colangela, that there is a
17 commonality of interest between the Mount
18 Vernon area and the Westchester/Bronx area.
19 So, it is not just Senator Velella; it
20 is a commonality of interest that has
21 occurred over the last 20 years.
22 And, certainly, with Senator Thompson,
23 which I find interesting because he is from
24 the smaller part of that District -- yet
.141
1 Mount Vernon, the Westchester section, has
2 been able to elect a Democrat Senator where
3 the boundary part is the Bronx.
4 And everybody has managed to live
5 together well and hopefully prosper together
6 well.
7 So, I think it goes beyond Senator
8 Velella.
9 The pattern has been established over
10 the last 20 years, Senator Dollinger.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator Skelos,
12 that is clearly one point of view.
13 What I am trying to find out is if the
14 issue is Mount Vernon being represented by
15 two representatives, that issue could be
16 accommodated without crossing into the
17 Bronx.
18 And if what you are looking for is two
19 effective represntatives -- and, again,
20 putting aside for a second the question of
21 the skills of an incumbent who gives
22 constituents service and other things --
23 which, I think I would be misleading if I
24 did not say that there were lots of people
.142
1 who came in and talked about Senator
2 Velella's impeccable skills in that regard.
3 But the question is, if what Mount
4 Vernon needs is two representatives so it
5 gets more attention, that, in and of itself,
6 is not contingent upon going into the Bronx.
7 It could be done in Westchester, could
8 it not?
9 MR. GOUBEAUD: It conceivably could.
10 But my point of view is that that
11 community that we have extends from the
12 Bronx more up the center rather than either
13 of the shores, meaning that Yonkers pays
14 attention to Yonkers and that is all that
15 Yonkers cares about.
16 And, you know, they make no bones about
17 it, that that is where their loyalty lies.
18 And we have found in the past, as I
19 said, when Senator Pasani -- which is
20 currently Senator Oppenheimer's District --
21 the Sound/Shore communities always had the
22 louder voice, always were taken care of.
23 And Mount Vernon became a stepchild in that
24 particular District.
.143
1 Whereas, when Senator Colangela did
2 pick up that part of Mount Vernon, we
3 started getting some attention.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: I should just also
5 mention the concept of one person/one vote.
6 Certainly, the Voting Rights Act sort
7 of trumps county lines.
8 And I think, in the last redistricting,
9 the Justice Department, the courts and State
10 boards, all understood that we were
11 accomplishing what we should be doing under
12 the Voting Rights Act and also one
13 person/one vote.
14 Thank you very much for being here.
15 MR. GOUBEAUD: Thank you.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you clarify
17 for me what the "downshore communities" are?
18 MR. GOUBEAUD: "Sound/Shore". I am
19 sorry if it came across as "downshore".
20 The Sound/Shore communities include
21 Larchmont, Mamaroneck, those that run along
22 the Sound.
23 New Rochelle is called "The Queen City
24 of the Sound". That is the lower portion
.144
1 there.
2 Following that right up the shore line,
3 which was the District that Senator Pasani
4 did represent and I believe is mostly
5 Senator Oppenheimer's District, would be the
6 Town of Mamaroneck, the Town and City of
7 Rye, Port Chester, Larchmont, Harrison,
8 which is also a town and a village.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. The next
10 speaker is Donald Shaffer.
11 MR. SHAFFER: Good morning. My name
12 is Don Shaffer.
13 I am here today on behalf of the New
14 York Civil Liberties Union.
15 I might start by saying that I
16 appreciated the remark of Senator Skelos a
17 minute ago being concerned with the
18 prosperity of the community as a result of
19 redistricting.
20 My testimony, I think, will point out
21 in some cases that redistricting has not
22 contributed to the prosperity of the
23 communities.
24 The New York Civil Liberties Union, as
.145
1 you well know, is the New York affiliate of
2 the American Civil Liberties Union.
3 And we are concerned about fundamental
4 rights that are guaranteed in the
5 Constitution.
6 Among the most basic rights, of course,
7 are the right to vote and the right to have
8 free choice in electing people whom we
9 support.
10 These rights are deeply implicated by
11 the Congressional, Senatorial an Assembly
12 districts which you are currently reviewing.
13 Any districting arrangement must deal
14 with the one person/one vote principle.
15 And at the same time, the district
16 boundaries must be designed to avoid
17 diluting the rights of voters to elect a
18 candidate of their choice.
19 It is with respect to the issue of vote
20 idlution that the NYCLU is deeply concerned
21 in connection particularly with lines in
22 Nassau and Suffolk Counties.
23 Not only Nassau and Suffolk but, in
24 this testimony, we are concerned
.146
1 particularly with regard to Nassau and
2 Suffolk.
3 The facts are very clear. Nassau and
4 Suffolk Counties have a population of
5 approximately 2.7 million people.
6 Just uner 19 percent of that population
7 is African American and Latino.
8 However, that minority population is
9 not widely dispersed.
10 As a matter of fact, they are very much
11 confined, as you well know, to a significant
12 number of small communities.
13 In Nassau, there is Freeport,
14 Roosevelt, Uniondale, Hempstead, West
15 Hempstead, Lakeview, South Hempstead,
16 Baldwin, North Valley Stream, Westbury, New
17 Cassel, Elmont and South Floral Park, all
18 primarily in the Town of Hempstead.
19 In Western Suffolk, these are in
20 Amityville, Brentwood, Copiaque, North
21 Lindenhurst, West Babylon, Wyandanch, all
22 located within the Towns of Babylon and
23 Islip.
24 In Nassau, as in Suffolk, these
.147
1 communities are in close proximity.
2 They are politically cohesive and
3 compact, and they share common interests.
4 All of this suggests the ease with
5 which Senate districts could be created to
6 more accurately reflect the minority
7 communities.
8 In Nassau, we believe it would be
9 relatively simple to create a
10 majority/minority senate district.
11 In Suffolk, we believe that it could be
12 easy to create and influence district.
13 Yet, for many years, the current
14 districting arrangement --
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Are you talking
16 about Assembly seats or Senate seats?
17 MR. SHAFFER: Senate seats, in
18 particular.
19 On the Assembly seat, there is already
20 one Assembly District which has been created
21 in Nassau.
22 And it is entirely conceivable that
23 that could be done in Suffolk as well.
24 I do not have the numbers or the maps
.148
1 in connection with that.
2 The facts are that, for many years, the
3 districts that I have talked about, that I
4 have mentioned so far, have been fragmented
5 in terms of the Senate districts in which
6 they are located.
7 They have been fragmented, and we
8 believe that is a reflection of intentional
9 districting policy and procedure.
10 For 30 years, the Senate redistricting
11 process in Nassau has split the minority
12 communities between the 6th, 7th, and 9th
13 Districts.
14 Political lines of the districts have
15 changed sharply during those 30 years.
16 But for those three decades, the
17 boundary lines dividing the minority
18 communities have remained largely the same.
19 A similar pattern is reflected in
20 Suffolk County for a period of 20 years;
21 that is, in the 1982 and 1992 districting.
22 Again, the minority communities in
23 Suffolk are split between the 3rd, 4th, 5th,
24 and 8th Districts.
.149
1 Political lines have been redrawn, but
2 one constant remains; that is that the lines
3 fragmenting the minority communities
4 continue largely to be the same.
5 In Brentwood, in Islip Town, the line
6 splitting that community between Senate
7 Districts 3 and 4 has been practically the
8 same in each redistricting.
9 Moreover, such fragmentation cannot be
10 justified upon sound redistricting
11 principles, such as compactness and
12 contiguity, or respect for natural
13 geographic borders.
14 The fragmentation, in spite of those
15 sound principles, give reason to believe
16 that there was intentional racial
17 discrimination in such redistricting.
18 And the racial discrimination was
19 designed to prevent minorities from
20 achieving true political power in exercising
21 reasonable choice.
22 Fortunately, the demographic changes
23 this year as a result of the 2000 Census
24 give you a new opportunity to change that
.150
1 pattern and correct the discrimination of
2 the past, to eliminate the suspicion that
3 the State Senate engaged in intentional
4 discrimination.
5 I have attached a chart to the report
6 which gives you some of the population data
7 showing the data for 1990 and the 2000 data.
8 And it shows that there has been a
9 signficant increase in the African American
10 and Latino populations in those communities.
11 In each of the 3rd, 4th, 6th and 8th
12 Districts, there have been increases such
13 that, in the 6th and 8th, the minority
14 population is now just under 30 percent in
15 each District.
16 And in the 3rd and 4th, each have about
17 25 percent.
18 As I said before, it is very likely
19 that a majority/minority district could be
20 created in Nassau County and an influence
21 district easily created in Suffolk.
22 We have a concern not only as to the
23 law and the principles of the Constitution
24 and the Voting Rights Act, but also on
.151
1 public policy grounds.
2 And we believe that you share our
3 concern in connection with those policy
4 issues.
5 Political representation on a fair
6 basis contributes to a vibrant and healthy
7 democratic society.
8 It is a vital part of the political
9 process which involves coalition- building.
10 Minorities are often defined not only
11 by racial identity but by shared geographic
12 areas and common interests.
13 We believe that in Nassau and Suffolk
14 there is considerable racial block voting on
15 the part not only of the minority community
16 but also on the part of the White
17 constituency.
18 When minority communities are split and
19 fragemented by politically-drawn lines so
20 that their political power is not exercised
21 in full fashion, not only do they suffer as
22 a result of the process but they suffer in
23 substance.
24 And this goes to your point, Senator
.152
1 Skelos.
2 The democratic process is thwarted and
3 causes injury not only as a matter of
4 process, but also as a matter of substance.
5 Individual legislators are no longer
6 accountable to their needs.
7 And, as you well know, the minority
8 communities, particularly in Suffolk and
9 Nassau, suffer failures right and left.
10 The school situation is the best
11 example. The high school tax rates in those
12 communities are another example.
13 The discriminatory overasessment system
14 -- I was just part of a lawsuit in Nassau
15 County which corrected that system.
16 There is a Consent Decree now, and
17 Nassau County is undergoing reassessment to
18 eliminate that discrimination which existed
19 for many years.
20 There is also a lack of services. You
21 know the list as well as I do.
22 We are currently representing --
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Where do you live
24 now?
.153
1 MR. SHAFFER: I now live in
2 Manhattan.
3 I lived in Nassau County for 37 years.
4 I now live in Manhattan, though I do
5 not quite know the relevance of that in
6 relation to this issue --
7 SENATOR SKELOS: I was just curious.
8 MR. SHAFFER: Fine. We are currently
9 representing in two litigations throughout
10 the State the glaring problems of inadequate
11 and discriminatory education.
12 And the minority communities in Nassau
13 and Suffolk Counties are a critical part of
14 that litigation.
15 One of our litigations alleges racial
16 discrimination and the failure to enforce
17 the State's own regulations with regard to
18 the provision of services and resources in
19 the high minority schools.
20 The second alleges failure to provide
21 the opportunity for a sound basic education
22 which the Court of Appeals, as you know, has
23 said is a Constitutional requirement.
24 If we had -- or, if the minority
.154
1 community had authentic and direct political
2 representation, we have no doubt that that
3 would have helped the political branch of
4 government to respond to those problems long
5 before this.
6 In dealing with Nassau and Suffolk, let
7 me make clear that we are not talking --
8 that does not mean that we do not believe
9 there may be similar problems elsewhere
10 throughout the State.
11 And we hope that if our research
12 indicates that in the future, that you will
13 give us the opportunity to bring that to
14 your attention.
15 And we will send you written memoranda
16 with it.
17 And in concentrating only on the
18 African American and Latino communities at
19 this point, we do not mean to suggest that
20 there does not exist the problem with regard
21 to other minorities, the Asian community,
22 for example.
23 If that be the case, we will bring it
24 to your attention as well.
.155
1 Finally, we urge the Task Force to
2 reconsider the district arrangements with
3 regard to Nassau and Suffolk Counties.
4 Racial discrimination is a cancer
5 eating away at the promise of our society.
6 Government-sanctioned discrimination
7 which denies fair choice and political
8 representation for minorities based on race
9 should not be permitted both on democratic
10 principles, on Voting Rights Act
11 legislation, equal protection doctrine and
12 public policy.
13 You have an obligation and now a
14 wonderful opportunity to correct the
15 discrimination of the past.
16 Draw the new lines so as to guarantee
17 free choice, fair choice, to minorities.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you.
19 Questions?
20 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: As you all
21 know, this is a body appointed by the
22 Assembly and the Senate.
23 And as a member of the Assembly, I am a
24 little more concerned with Assembly
.156
1 districts than for Senate districts.
2 And although I find your testimony
3 interesting on its face, I also find it
4 interesting in its omissions because I am
5 curious as to why the NYCLU is so concerned
6 with the Senate and seems to have turned a
7 completely blind eye to discrimination
8 examples in Assembly districts.
9 MR. SHAFFER: I do not think that is
10 the case, Mr. Ortloff.
11 We are concerned with Assembly
12 districts.
13 As a matter of fact, we brought -- and
14 smaller jurisdictions as well.
15 We brought the lawsuit in Nassau County
16 in connection with the Board of Supervisors
17 to create the County Legislature just a few
18 years ago.
19 That was an example of our aggressive
20 intervention in voting rights.
21 And we will look into the Assembly
22 districts as well.
23 As I mentioned, in Nassau County, there
24 is the 18th Assembly District which has been
.157
1 created as a majority/minority district.
2 And we believe that, if there is
3 information that indicates there are more
4 districts that can be created, that should
5 certainly be done.
6 In addition, we supported -- though we
7 were not direct counsel, we supported the
8 case against the Town of Hempstead in which
9 the Town Council, on an at-large voting
10 basis, excluded, in effect, all members of
11 minority communities from legislative
12 positions.
13 And, certainly, the choice --
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Can I ask you a
15 question on that?
16 In the Town of Hempstead, wasn't there
17 an African American councilman that was
18 elected townwide and wasn't there a
19 councilwoman, Mrs. Goozby, who was elected
20 at-large -- both of them elected at-large
21 townwide?
22 Wasn't there at one time, I believe,
23 two African Americans that sat on the town
24 boards and now, going through the
.158
1 legislative method, there is one?
2 MR. SHAFFER: Whatever the history
3 is, Mr. Skelos, the history is.
4 But the Federal Court found a history
5 of discrimination and ordered a change from
6 the at-large voting system to district
7 systems in connection with the Town of
8 Hempstead.
9 They made a finding that there had been
10 discrimination historically, racial block
11 voting and discrimination in the provision
12 of services and government attitudes.
13 Let me just elaborate on that. As you
14 may know, in the Town of Babylon, a similar
15 issue was raised.
16 And in a referendum, when the
17 legislators tried to create a district
18 system, the voters overwhelmingly White,
19 rejected that system.
20 We would argue that that is another
21 example, perhaps, of the history of
22 discrimination in that area.
23 And it is a matter that we are
24 currently investigating in terms of further
.159
1 litigation.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: May I follow
3 up?
4 Your answer to my question only prompts
5 me to be even more concerned because, when I
6 raised the question of the Assembly, you
7 seemed to be completely unaware of any of
8 the issues that might apply just to Assembly
9 districts.
10 And, in fact, your answer, in talking
11 about town elections in Hempstead and the
12 other local jurisdictions, only leads me to
13 wonder again.
14 If you are so all-encompassing, why
15 have left out the Assembly?
16 Let me ask you a particular question.
17 In the Towns of Babylon and Islip in
18 Suffolk County, my own very cursory
19 examination and in talking with people who
20 live in that community indicates that you
21 could make the case that Assembly district
22 lines are discriminatory in that area; they
23 could create a majority/minority district.
24 For example, I could create for you
.160
1 today a 75 percent minority district in the
2 Towns of Babylon and Islip and, yet, you do
3 not even mention that as an example.
4 What has happened there is the minority
5 community has been divided into one majority
6 Democratic district and another Democratic
7 district -- ostensibly.
8 And I am not saying so, but the people
9 in the community have said so; that the
10 division exists to deliver those safe
11 Democrat votes to two White Democrat
12 incumbents at the expenes of communities
13 like Wyandanch and others in that area.
14 Why don't you look at that?
15 MR. SHAFFER: I would welcome any
16 information that you would want to present.
17 And I assure you that it will have our
18 attention.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Have you looked
20 at, for example, the -- I think we have
21 eight Hispanic incumbents in the Assembly
22 today.
23 If you go to Queens, if you go to the
24 Bronx, I think you could create a couple of
.161
1 more there.
2 There is certainly a concern among the
3 Hispanic Legislative Task Force.
4 Have you dicussed this with them?
5 MR. SHAFFER: I personally have not,
6 and I do not believe that, as yet, we have
7 been in touch with Members of the Assembly
8 in that area.
9 But there is no reason in the world why
10 we should not.
11 As you know, the Civil Liberties Union
12 is strictly a non-partisan organization.
13 And while --
14 SENATOR ORTLOFF: I always thought so
15 --
16 MR. SHAFFER: Just as an example, on
17 discrimination in assessments, when many of
18 the people in the community argued that this
19 was a Republican assessment system, that the
20 Republican Party ran Nassau County, I for
21 one always pointed out that the Democrats on
22 the Board of Supervisors and the Democrats
23 in the County Legislature had the
24 opportunity to make changes or at least move
.162
1 in that direction, and failed to do so.
2 So, I want to make clear the non-
3 partisan nature of the Civil Liberties Union
4 approach to this problem.
5 And I think that the point you make is
6 well-taken.
7 And we will look into the Assembly
8 situation as well.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Have you looked
10 into the Asian population in the City of New
11 York and the number of potential
12 majority/minority agencies that could be
13 created?
14 MR. SHAFFER: I have read the
15 testimony that Margaret Fung of the Asian
16 American Legal Defense Fund presented to
17 this Task Force.
18 And it is something that we will be
19 talking further with her about.
20 I personally have not. And the NYCLU
21 has not as yet begun to deal with that
22 issue.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Have you looked
24 into the City of Syracuse and the African
.163
1 American community there and the way that
2 has been divided into two separate
3 districts?
4 MR. SHAFFER: As I indicated, we have
5 not, but that is certainly -- in the
6 statement, I made clear that that is
7 something that we would want to do as we get
8 into this process more.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Your written
10 statement does not --
11 MR. SHAFFER: The written statement
12 deals only with the facts in Nassau and
13 Suffolk as we have them.
14 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: With respect to
15 only the Senate, correct?
16 MR. SHAFFER: And the State Senate.
17 That is correct.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: You do not have
19 any further explanation for why there is
20 that focus on the Senate and not the
21 Assembly?
22 MR. SHAFFER: The information with
23 regard to the Senate was brought to our
24 attention.
.164
1 We would be happy to receive your
2 information as well and deal with that issue
3 based upon its merits.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: So, in other
5 words, your investigation was driven by
6 somebody outside providing you with
7 information, not by your own objective --
8 MR. SHAFFER: We asked for some
9 information with regard to this districting
10 process.
11 And this information came forth. We
12 are asking you now for some information, and
13 we would hope that you would send it to us
14 and bring it to our attention.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: May I ask you who
16 you asked for that information?
17 MR. SHAFFER: Who did we ask? We
18 asked the Senate Leader, Martin Connor and
19 his office in one case.
20 And now we would be happy to receive it
21 from you as well.
22 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Let me just ask
23 you further.
24 Thank you for the question. I guess my
.165
1 question goes to the heart of why a
2 non-partisan organization seeking
3 information about discrimination would go to
4 the Democratic Leader of only one House to
5 request the information?
6 How did you make that decision?
7 MR. SHAFFER: In Suffolk County, the
8 nature of the discriminatory process is so
9 overwhelming in terms of the elected
10 legislators that it stares one in the face.
11 I may have slightly wrong numbers; I am
12 speaking from memory.
13 There are 11 Assembly Districts. There
14 are four or five State Senators. There are
15 10 Town Councils, each with multiple
16 members.
17 There are three Congressional figures.
18 There is not a single African American
19 or Latino representative on any of those
20 bodies.
21 It stares one in the face and makes one
22 ask questions: Why is that?
23 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: You included
24 Assembly seats in --
.166
1 MR. SHAFFER: I included the 11
2 Assembly seats in Suffolk County.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: I thought we
4 were talking about Nassau County --
5 MR. SHAFFER: Well, listen, the
6 situation in Nassau could be improved as
7 well. Absolutely right.
8 We have talked about it in terms of the
9 County Board of Legislators; there are
10 conceivably two or three more seats that
11 ought to be developed very shortly in order
12 to give the minorities the representation to
13 which they are really entitled.
14 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: So, this all
15 began because the situation as you saw it in
16 Suffolk County was so, if I remember your
17 words, glaringly obvious?
18 MR. SHAFFER: As far as I am
19 concerned, that is absolutely true.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: And you went
21 seeking information about why there was
22 glaringly obvious discrimination, in your
23 words, in Suffolk County in the 11 Assembly
24 seats and the five Senate seats and in all
.167
1 the local legislative seats.
2 And to investigate the reason for that,
3 the NYCLU went to Senator Connor and only
4 Senator Connor for --
5 MR. SHAFFER: Well, so far, that is
6 the case.
7 But, again, it is easily corrected.
8 Send me the information. My statement
9 has my --
10 SENATOR SKELOS: I think what
11 Assemblyman Ortloff is saying is that he
12 finds it interesting, at least, that you
13 would, in the case of Suffolk County, go to
14 the Democrat Minority Leader of the Senate
15 for information.
16 Again, just out of curiosity, have you
17 contacted the Assembly Minority Leader, John
18 Fasso, for any information, who is the
19 Republican Leader?
20 MR. SHAFFER: If you feel that would
21 be productive, I would be happy -- we have
22 not done that, but I will be happy to do
23 that if you think that would be productive.
24 But, again --
.168
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Because we want to
2 make sure that your organization truly is
3 non-partisan and that your only reach is not
4 just to the Democrat Minority Leader of the
5 Senate for information because Senator
6 Connor may be partisan in the information
7 provided.
8 MR. SHAFFER: The partisan nature of
9 this discussion would easily be overcome by
10 correcting the problem, whether it be in the
11 Assembly, whether it be in the Senate or any
12 other place.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: May I ask a
14 question?
15 As I understand your testimony, Mr.
16 Shaffer, you have gotten some of that
17 information from Senator Connor.
18 But I also understand that, if there
19 were additional information from anybody on
20 this panel or from any other person in the
21 public, you would take that into account in
22 deciding what position, if any, the NYCLU
23 would have with respect to redistricting at
24 any level.
.169
1 Is that correct?
2 MR. SHAFFER: Absolutely correct.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So, it is not so
4 much where the information came from; it is
5 the nature of the information and its
6 accuracy that the NYCLU is looking for in
7 coming to some position, if any, in the
8 redistricting process of any portion of
9 this?
10 MR. SHAFFER: That is correct.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Finally, as I
12 understand your testimony, the NYCLU has
13 been involved in the Hempstead
14 reapportionment in the issues relating to
15 the assessment issues in Nassau County and
16 in other issues in Suffolk County, as well.
17 That all pre-dates any discussions you
18 have had with Senator Connor or anybody on
19 his staff, is that correct?
20 MR. SHAFFER: Of course.
21 MR. BRUY: I am just curious. Do you
22 recall if the Civil Liberties Union was
23 involved at all in the legal dispute over
24 the 12th Congressional District created 10
.170
1 years ago, the so-called Bullwinkle
2 District?
3 MR. SHAFFER: I do not know it by
4 that name.
5 Could you tell me the -- who the
6 Congressperson --
7 MR. BRUY: The Velasquez District.
8 MR. SHAFFER: I do not know the facts
9 in connection with it.
10 My understanding is that the Civil
11 Liberties Union has supported such
12 districts.
13 Whether they were involved in the
14 Velasquez District or not, I do not know.
15 MR. BRUY: Thank you.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Lorraine
17 Palais?
18 MS. PALAIS: Good afternoon. I am
19 here representing the Lincoln Park Taxpayers
20 Association in Yonkers.
21 And if I realized that this was going
22 to be a testimonial to incumbents, I could
23 use some of the other hats I wear because I
24 am a former Democratic ward leader in
.171
1 Yonkers.
2 I could tell you about how wonderful I
3 think Nita is.
4 I am President at the present time of
5 the 2nd Precinct Community Council, and we
6 have been the recipients of grants from
7 Senator Guy Velella that we have used for
8 our police officers.
9 And I was a Congressional aide back in
10 the eighties to a Congressman.
11 And I can honestly tell you that
12 splitting a Congressional district between
13 Westchester and the Bronx does cause
14 problems because you work with different
15 agencies, Social Security agencies, other
16 agencies, in each district. So, there is a
17 problem.
18 But what I am really here for is about
19 what you called the meeting for, and that is
20 to discuss reapportionment.
21 One of our biggest problems in the City
22 of Yonkers is the fact that we are next to
23 New York City.
24 But please remember that we are the
.172
1 fourth largest city in the State.
2 Those of you -- I heard someone say
3 from Rochester, "I do not think you have the
4 same problems we do."
5 The first speaker was talking about the
6 fact that she did not want to be part of the
7 rest of Westchester County because we are an
8 urban area and our problems are different
9 and such.
10 Well, if we could move Yonkers out from
11 where we are, maybe we would get the
12 recognition that I think we deserve.
13 We are chopped up into all kinds of
14 little pieces.
15 We have got two State Senators, two
16 Assemblymen.
17 There are three Congressman in the City
18 of Yonkers.
19 And I do not think any of the other
20 large cities in the State of New York would
21 be in -- would have that problem.
22 And what I am really upset about and
23 what I have had to live with for the past
24 eight years or so is the last
.173
1 reapportionment that you did to the Assembly
2 seat that is now held by Gary Pretlow, who
3 is a friend and who I respect.
4 In order to make his District, they
5 took part of Mount Vernon and the western
6 part of Yonkers near the Hudson River.
7 And in order to make a contiguous
8 district, they have a one-block strip that
9 runs along the southern part of Westchester
10 and the northern part of the Bronx.
11 And that area has no representation.
12 You would say that we do, but most of
13 the people in that District think that Mike
14 Spano is their Assemblyman because he has
15 all the rest of Yonkers.
16 When there are things going on, we have
17 to go to Mike for it because that little
18 strip is not attached to anything really.
19 And what we are asking you to do is
20 what you did with the State Senate District
21 because I do know that you have to work by
22 numbers.
23 The problem is there are too many
24 people in Yonkers to make just one Assembly
.174
1 district.
2 What we are really asking for is, if
3 you are going to come into the City and take
4 a section of it, please have it a
5 self-contained area; not with this little
6 strip and a piece over here.
7 We want representation as you did with
8 Guy Velella's District.
9 He has the southeast section of
10 Yonkers. He represents it. Everyone in the
11 District knows who their State Senator is.
12 He does a marvelous job for it. And we
13 want that same representation in the
14 Assembly.
15 We do not want to be, you know,
16 attached to something.
17 I know that when it was originally
18 done, they called it something else. Now
19 you call it an opportunity district.
20 But the City of Yonkers in the past 10
21 years has gone through a lot of change.
22 You know that we were a landmark
23 lawsuit brought by the Federal Government
24 that claimed we were segregated housing and
.175
1 schools.
2 And because of that, the City has built
3 200 units of low-income housing on the east
4 side.
5 They have done all kinds of affordable
6 housing initiatives.
7 And I think all of the City of Yonkers
8 is pretty well integrated so that any area
9 that you add on to Mount Vernon will add to
10 his numbers, if that is what you are trying
11 to do.
12 But I think that it is about time we
13 stopped drawing lines like that and that the
14 Assembly district should be one whole
15 district.
16 I do not know if you have any questions
17 about it.
18 (No response.)
19 MS. PALAIS: I gather I made my
20 point.
21 MR. PALAIS: Good afternoon. My name
22 is Eliot Palais. I am a former City
23 Councilman of Yonkers, currently Title IV
24 Director at Fordham University.
.176
1 And I have been involved with the
2 Democratic Party as the State Commitee
3 Members' first vice-chair of the Yonkers
4 party.
5 In order to run, I have to ask my
6 wife's permission because she is the ward
7 leader. I am only the District leader.
8 But I am here to tell you that the City
9 of Yonkers is known as the City of Gracious
10 Living.
11 Unfortunately, it is getting more
12 difficult to live up to that reputation
13 because of the piecemeal gerrymandering and
14 changing of districts that has been going
15 on.
16 I know the constraints that you operate
17 under, the legislative mandates to set up
18 the proper districts.
19 But I would ask you to please -- and
20 this is a term you could probably go to the
21 bank with -- refrain from jigsaw
22 gerrymandering.
23 Jigsaw gerrymandering confuses the
24 public, alienates the public, and it really
.177
1 upsets people because they do not know where
2 they belong.
3 Even the County, in its wisdom in
4 redistricting, has removed only one street
5 of one district and kept the other district
6 in tact.
7 And, for the life of me, I cannot
8 figure out why they did that.
9 So, to take a city and chop it up is
10 really unfair.
11 We ask -- as my wife had mentioned
12 before -- that you take larger districts and
13 put them together.
14 I seem to have stumbled upon
15 testimonials all morning long.
16 And if the current situation goes on, I
17 can give testimonials to two State Senators.
18 I can give testimonials to three
19 Assemblymen -- two Assemblymen, and two
20 Federal representatives.
21 But I think the time has come where we
22 would like to narrow it down to a proper
23 representation so that people will not feel
24 alienated; they will know who their
.178
1 representatives are, and we can get more
2 participation.
3 I thank you very much for listening to
4 me.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. I
6 understand the next speaker is Mr. Joseph
7 Murphy.
8 MR. MURPHY: Good afternoon. Sorry I
9 am late. I was taking care of some elderly
10 people; they were looking for some money.
11 So, if you have some extra money, you
12 should pass some legislation.
13 However, I am here on behalf of the
14 issue of redistricting, and I am going to
15 read the text that I have prepared.
16 My name is Joseph P. Murphy. I reside
17 at 57 Franklin Avenue, Rye, New York,
18 located in the 18th Congressional District.
19 Before that, my same address fell in
20 the 20th Congressional District.
21 Tomorrow, I assure you my address will
22 remain the same, but whre will my
23 Congressional District be located?
24 It is a pleasure to appear before this
.179
1 esteemed body to speak in behalf of
2 Congresswoman Nita M. Lowey, who has
3 represented our Congressional District over
4 12 years.
5 My intent is to be constructive and
6 unselfish in my remarks.
7 My hope is that Ms. Lowey, like me,
8 will not have to change her address, her
9 office address, as she had to do the
10 preceding time.
11 For those of you who do not know Nita
12 M. Lowey, I can attest to her capable,
13 committed representation of her constituents
14 these past five terms.
15 I do not presume by my presence that I
16 can advise you on how to resolve the
17 redistricting lines, but rather I hope to
18 persuade you to sustain the integrity of Ms.
19 Lowey's Congressional District.
20 In my lifetime, I have been selective
21 in my appearances to testify before
22 governmental bodies.
23 Today, I would be remiss were I not
24 willing to accept this challenge.
.180
1 I am here not just as a citizen, but
2 also as a retired Chief Warrant Officer W4,
3 having served in the Marine Corps and Naval
4 Reserves for 28 years.
5 My military experience has taught me
6 many things.
7 Most importantly, I learned that
8 expectations are accomplished through
9 perseverance and alliances to strategies and
10 people.
11 During my military experiences, I was
12 blessed to be able to make a difference.
13 This took attention to duty and
14 sacrifices of my time.
15 These same attributes are essential, in
16 my opinion, for a member of the U.S.
17 Congress.
18 One special woman of the United States
19 Congress, giving unselfishly of herself with
20 an undivided attention to the interests of
21 her country, community, an constituents, is
22 Nita M. Lowey.
23 She cares about our national interests
24 and repreents her District with compassion
.181
1 for the needs of others.
2 She has long demonstrated her
3 dedication to our Nation's young and elder
4 citizens without prejudice.
5 Without her, outcomes would be less
6 than perfect.
7 We need her to continue as a national
8 leader for our future.
9 She is ably equipped to respond to
10 crises and to elevate our country to higher
11 standards.
12 I am particularly appreciative of her
13 vision relative to the future interests of
14 our military.
15 She has shown unusual imagination for
16 this Country's national interests by the
17 unique services she offers her youthful
18 constituents.
19 As Chairman of her Service Academy
20 Review Board, I have witnessed her able and
21 supportive leadership role first hand.
22 She assists our Board unconditionally
23 in reaching out to every interested
24 youngster desiring the chance to attend a
.182
1 military academy.
2 I have seen her commitment to public
3 service through the actions of this Board.
4 I have witnessed that her service to
5 others lies within her very fiber.
6 My work under her direction is
7 performed in a non-partisan arena comparable
8 to my experiences as a former school board
9 trustee.
10 She envisions the needs of her youthful
11 constituents as a priority.
12 She converts her own expectations of
13 herself on us as Review Board members,
14 demanding we aim beyond the norms.
15 I know because I have been performing
16 this volunteer work since 1983 under three
17 Congressional representatives, including Ms.
18 Lowey.
19 In all the years I have volunteered to
20 serve young candidates seeking admission to
21 a military academy, there has never been a
22 more rewarding time than under Ms. Lowey's
23 leadership.
24 Unlike her predecessors, she elevated
.183
1 appointment outcomes for all applicants by
2 margin far more plentiful than required.
3 It is not just because the youth of our
4 District are smarter, but because she
5 believes in them and in our national
6 interests.
7 She knows our country is best served by
8 elevating youth to higher levels of purpose
9 and excellence.
10 She knows our country thrives on a
11 foundation calling for a strong and
12 intelligent military.
13 To commit to these objectives, she has
14 maximized the use of the resources of her
15 office by offering them to her constituents.
16 She accentuates all avenues of
17 opportunity for them.
18 The proof is in the pudding. Under Ms.
19 Lowey's leadership, we have been able to
20 achieve over 125 appointments to all four
21 academies over the past 12 years, greater
22 than a 2-to-1 margin.
23 The reason for this success is that she
24 insists the young people be exposed to
.184
1 information, going the extra distance to
2 advance educational programs and offering
3 guidance to the more serious candidates to
4 ensure higher results.
5 The outcomse of our ervice Academy
6 Revie Board are not just the result of the
7 dedicated community leaders who serve on her
8 Board, although they are critically
9 important to the process.
10 It is Ms. Lowey's continuous
11 encouragement of us to meet new challenges.
12 She offers us the support of her entire
13 staff to help us exceed goals.
14 What she accomplishes for our future
15 military is that the same high standards she
16 applies to herself be met in military
17 leadership.
18 Her public service record must be
19 sustained by preserving her Congressional
20 District lines.
21 Thank you.
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I have just one
23 question.
24 You mentioned you lived in Rye. Is
.185
1 that in the City of Rye?
2 MR. PALAIS: The City of Rye. Is
3 there any other Rye?
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, there is a
5 Town of Rye.
6 MR. PALAIS: The City of Rye.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. That
8 completes our list. Is there anybody else
9 who wishes to testify?
10 (No response.)
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much.
12 Motion to adjourn?
13 ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: So moved.
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Second.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: All in favor say
16 "aye".
17 (A chorus of ayes.)
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Opposed?
19 (No response.)
20 SENATOR SKELOS: The meeting is
21 adjourned.
22 Thank you.
23 (Whereupon, at 1:50 o'clock p.m., the
24 Public Hearing was adjourned.)